EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[chalga]

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm generally inclined to vote to stay with on better terms, but the way this discussion is going I'm veering towards voting to leave because the arguments being fought here to stay in seem paper thin, plain wrong, or just bizarre.

 

 

 

Do you even begin to understand where the EU money for the Welsh youth club comes from, or how it gets to Wales?

 

It's obvious that either you don't, or you're some kind of weird political shill.

 

It's from the EU and arrives in the form of an EU grant that has benefitted many causes that would never have been funded by national or local governments Europe wide.........now you tell us your version.

[unbeliever]

It's from the EU and arrives in the form of an EU grant that has benefitted many causes that would never have been funded by national or local governments Europe wide.........now you tell us your version.

 

I'll bite.

 

The UK people pay various taxes. Some of that tax money goes to the EU. A fraction of that money comes back in the form of grants and the rest goes elsewhere, or is spent on the machinery of EU government itself.

 

The alternative would be to stop sending money to the EU, then there would be more money for the UK government to spend on grants for various things, or to just reduce UK taxes. Most likely some combination.

There is of course no guarantee that an independent UK government would make the same spending decisions which directly affect you.

 

If you're attempting to justify the existence of the EU, because you think they may better decisions on public spending, I think you're on to a loser.

[L00b]

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm generally inclined to vote to stay with on better terms, but the way this discussion is going I'm veering towards voting to leave because the arguments being fought here to stay in seem paper thin, plain wrong, or just bizarre.

You'll base your vote on exchanges with complete strangers on a public forum, rather than your own independently-gathered information and independently-formed opinion?

 

Pull the other one.

[Eric Arthur]

Thanks unbeliever.

It's from the EU and arrives in the form of an EU grant that has benefitted many causes that would never have been funded by national or local governments Europe wide.........now you tell us your version.

Where can we find one of these EU money generators?

[kidneystone]

If

doesn't inspire you to vote to leave the EU then nothing will.

[I1L2T3]

I'll bite.

 

The UK people pay various taxes. Some of that tax money goes to the EU. A fraction of that money comes back in the form of grants and the rest goes elsewhere, or is spent on the machinery of EU government itself.

 

The alternative would be to stop sending money to the EU, then there would be more money for the UK government to spend on grants for various things, or to just reduce UK taxes. Most likely some combination.

There is of course no guarantee that an independent UK government would make the same spending decisions which directly affect you.

 

If you're attempting to justify the existence of the EU, because you think they may better decisions on public spending, I think you're on to a loser.

 

The bit in bold is a blatant misrepresentation.

 

You are trying to make it look like only a tiny amount comes back. The reality is that we get back 30-40% of what we put in. I guess that you could call that a fraction but I think you are trying to portray a very different scenario. One that doesn't exist.

[Eric Arthur]

You'll base your vote on exchanges with complete strangers on a public forum, rather than your own independently-gathered information and independently-formed opinion?

 

Pull the other one.

 

What do you think L00b, you should have got some impression of me by now?

 

As I said, I'm generally in favour of steady as she goes, change course deliberately, gently, don't rock the boat, don't keel us over, keep the passengers comfortable, dry, warm and well fed. I like Cameron's relatively boring approach to the EU. Yes he could have got more, the reverse is true too, but it's a better direction than we have if we did nothing. As it stands, we can't lose if we go with Cameron's plan, there are more unknowns if we leave, so just keep the tiller steady.

 

As you might have detected, I'm thinking of buying a boat. The EU wide VAT regs make it interesting so I have a vested interest in the right answer all round.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Eric Arthur

[foxy lady]

It's from the EU and arrives in the form of an EU grant that has benefitted many causes that would never have been funded by national or local governments Europe wide.........now you tell us your version.

 

So its a bit like the lottery then. Everyone chucks in money all the time and if someone's number comes up they give back a small fraction of the cash in order to keep everyone sweet so that they'll keep chipping in by buying more tickets.

 

---------- Post added 24-02-2016 at 10:22 ----------

 

The bit in bold is a blatant misrepresentation.

 

You are trying to make it look like only a tiny amount comes back. The reality is that we get back 30-40% of what we put in.

 

Classic...:hihi::hihi:

 

If you think that's a good deal I'm happy to open a bank account for you on the same terms.

Edited February 24, 2016 by foxy lady

[chalga]

You must surely still have a view?

 

Do you not agree that it is perfectly possible to have a business friendly, functioning EU without ceding non-trade related powers to it?

 

Do you not agree that there is risk in ceding non-trade relating powers to the EU because it is possible that the surging far-right and nationalist parties across Europe could seize the reins?

 

Do you not agree that the business leaders, whose arguments you repeat, give zero consideration to the impact EU membership has had at a social level for millions of ordinary people and also fail to address what the lose of sovereignty might mean from any perspective other than business? Is it not true that they are completely motivated by money and would surrender their own mothers to Albanian sex traffickers to protect their profits?

 

That's the EU for you,it means many different things to many different people,and everybody has their own vested interests.Unfortunately,they are all interwoven together,business,people,governments and now outside EU events affecting inside EU events.

My own view is that the EU has become too big to sustain now,so Cameron has done the right thing in getting powers back and ordering a referendum for people to vote on,that way,he can say that he has done as much as he can and given the decision to the people who have been and will be affected by EU decisions in the future.

Now you trust what he has negotiated,your own gut feeling or both,so businesses and ordinary people are in the same boat and have to abide by democracy.

Seeing as business and money has a great deal of power,there will be ramifications if the result doesn't go the right way for them,we will have to wait and see what they are,and if Cameron got it right or wrong.Either way,it's pretty much a stab in the dark,but the EU has definitely got too big for itself now with too much power,so I believe that the UK will vote out in the referendum,a result that I would not argue with.

 

---------- Post added 24-02-2016 at 10:28 ----------

 

Thanks unbeliever.

 

Where can we find one of these EU money generators?

 

 

I found one over 30 years ago,on EU funded courses for redundant steelworkers....it gave me something to move on to when I got thrown on the scrapheap.

[unbeliever]

The bit in bold is a blatant misrepresentation.

 

You are trying to make it look like only a tiny amount comes back. The reality is that we get back 30-40% of what we put in. I guess that you could call that a fraction but I think you are trying to portray a very different scenario. One that doesn't exist.

 

Great. So now a third is not a fraction. Well I'm convinced.

If it was over half, you might have a legitimate complaint.