EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[Eater Sundae]

I think it more likely that other EU member states will break free and come and join the UK in a different type of EU. They could call it The Common Market.

 

Yes, but in time it will be seen as too cumbersome to keep saying "The Common Market". They'll only want to change it to something shorter, such as EEC or even EU.

[JFKvsNixon]

The total number of migrants illegally entering the EU in 2015 is said to be 1,005,504 up to 21st December. That's just the ones they know about. I doubt 2016 will bring less once the weather improves.

 

Ok, how does the existence of the EU make this situation any worse. Without the EU the refugees would still make the journey, the border countries will still lack the will and resources to stop them.

 

Obviously the leadership of the EU has been severely lacking, but I also fail to see any leadership from the European country's own parliaments, so what difference would the UK being out of Europe make to the refugee crisis?

[OPEN BORDERS]

The total number of migrants illegally entering the EU in 2015 is said to be 1,005,504 up to 21st December. That's just the ones they know about. I doubt 2016 will bring less once the weather improves.

 

When they get 'invited' here by Merkel on behalf of the EU what do you expect.

More to come, more unrest, more cost.

That alone is good enough reason to get out.

Vote leave !

[L00b]

Obviously the leadership of the EU has been severely lacking, but I also fail to see any leadership from the European country's own parliaments

Did you take a passing look at Hungary and Austria lately? Heard about the impending referendum set up by Orban for giving solid platinum rods to Merkel?

 

Can't you hear the Greeks screaming blue murder from where you are? I'm in S9 and I can!

 

so what difference would the UK being out of Europe make to the refugee crisis?

I suppose, objectively, it removes the component of UK contributions to the EU budget that gets devoted to the question by the EU.

 

And on that topic, Juncker and Co. have been rather profligate with throwing other people's money at Erdogan by way of bribe, lately.

 

Then again, there are insistent noises that NATO is to be brought into the eastern Med by spring to 'handle' the expected flotilla of rubber dinghies. And in or out of the EU, GB will still be a prominent NATO member, so in practice the budget point may well turn out to be moot.

Edited February 25, 2016 by L00b

[retep]

Waiting in the wings for all who vote to stay in,

 

"European Union officials aren’t just determined to keep mum during the U.K.’s referendum campaign: They are refusing to move key legislation out of fear that they might fuel support for a Brexit."

 

http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-presses-brexit-hold-button-uk-referendum-campaign-eu-legislation/

[foxy lady]

Yes, but in time it will be seen as too cumbersome to keep saying "The Common Market". They'll only want to change it to something shorter, such as EEC or even EU.

 

It's not a problem what they call a club. It's who you accept as members that makes the difference.

 

---------- Post added 25-02-2016 at 12:42 ----------

 

Ok, how does the existence of the EU make this situation any worse. Without the EU the refugees would still make the journey, the border countries will still lack the will and resources to stop them.

 

Obviously the leadership of the EU has been severely lacking, but I also fail to see any leadership from the European country's own parliaments, so what difference would the UK being out of Europe make to the refugee crisis?

 

Without the EU the migrants would have faced border controls like the one that stopped me when I tried to cross into Slovenia. The member states are now re-establishing their border fences and border controls. We have the English Channel as our number one assett and we don't need some German deciding for us who is allowed to cross it.

 

Folk should not be able to cross an entire continent without a passport or documents, and they certainly shouldn't be given free reign to break in to lorries and attempt to enter the UK without an invitation.

Edited February 25, 2016 by foxy lady

[JFKvsNixon]

Did you take a passing look at Hungary and Austria lately? Heard about the impending referendum set up by Orban for giving solid platinum rods to Merkel?

 

Can't you hear the Greeks screaming blue murder from where you are? I'm in S9 and I can!

 

I'm not defending the poor decisions made, or the existence of the growing resentment from those poor positions.

 

I just fail to see either the UK being out of Europe or if the EU had never existed, would have made a difference to the bigger picture. There would still have been a massive lack of will from the European national leaders to do anything more than stand around shrug their shoulders and expect someone else to sort the problem out.

 

Also in or out of the EU, I don't think that the UK would be able to get away watching the crisis from the sidelines, as one of the richest country's in the region it would have been expected that we help.

Edited February 25, 2016 by JFKvsNixon

[srt2016]

I'm not defending the poor decisions made, or the existence of the growing resentment from those poor positions.

 

I just fail to see either the UK being out of Europe or if the EU had never existed, would have made a difference to the bigger picture. There would still have been a massive lack of will from our national leaders to do anything more than stand around shrug their shoulders and expect someone else to sort the problem out.

 

Also in or out of the EU, I don't think that the UK would be able to get away watching the crisis from the sidelines, as one of the richest country's in the region it would have been expected that we help.

 

How are we rich? We cant afford to keep up with the interest on what we owe never mind pay the debt off.

[L00b]

I'm not defending the poor decisions made, or the existence of the growing resentment from those poor positions.

 

I just fail to see either the UK being out of Europe or if the EU had never existed, would have made a difference to the bigger picture. There would still have been a massive lack of will from our national leaders to do anything more than stand around shrug their shoulders and expect someone else to sort the problem out.

Well, this is likely to remain conjecture forever and longer, since Merkel unilaterally broke the consensus that is the EU decision-making process about this thorny issue in the first place, and has been politicking ever since to ensure that it stays broken, eventually forcing EU member states like Hungary, Austria, Macedonia and more to go "f*** it, we'll do it our own way, then".

 

But since this thread is specifically about the UK, given that the very same immigration thorny issue is effectively what forced Cameron into giving that very ball referendum, do you really think that, in the absence of an EU, the British government would have done "nothing more than stand around shrug their shoulders and expect someone else to sort the problem out"?

 

Bear in mind that the UK, had it been out of the EU, would have had years of economic immigration at substantially similar levels.

 

Anecdotally, I came to the UK in 1994 myself, years and years before the East Europeans, and already I was far from alone seeking better fortunes here (I was part of what the French were calling -already then- their brain drain...it's been unending, in France and elsewhere throughout the EU, ever since - lastly quite dramatically on the back of the 2008 recession).

Also in or out of the EU, I don't think that the UK would be able to get away watching the crisis from the sidelines, as one of the richest country's in the region it would have been expected that we help.

Unless it was all hot air (or outright lies) by Cameron, GB is helping to fund the UN camps peripherally about Syria with a sizeable chunk of the foreign aid budget

 

Which is how it should be, with hand-picking (and vetting) cases deserving of asylum. Rather than let 740,000-ish (74% estimate of 1m migrants) military-age young males trample and quasi-rampage their way across most of continental Europe shopping around for the best benefits package going. If that is all they've come for, that is (which we don't know, since none have been vetted).

Edited February 25, 2016 by L00b

[Zamo]

Ok, how does the existence of the EU make this situation any worse. Without the EU the refugees would still make the journey, the border countries will still lack the will and resources to stop them.

 

Obviously the leadership of the EU has been severely lacking, but I also fail to see any leadership from the European country's own parliaments, so what difference would the UK being out of Europe make to the refugee crisis?

 

It was the EU that introduced open borders within the EU and failed to secure the outer borders that made this mass migration possible. And it is the EU that talks of distribution quotas instead of deportations that further encourages mass migration (if you can get here, you'll be allowed to stay).

 

The notion that the EU would emerge as a new superpower is well and truly debunked. What we ended up with is a stuperpower and it is time for member states to retake control of their borders, decide their own immigration policies and to put the EU back in its' trade body box.