tzijlstra Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 In or out, there are no certainties either way, but think about this; currently the unelected EU commission(where all the real power lies) is comprised of people that are centre/left of centre politically. What if it became comprised of extremely right wing leaning people? would the Euro fanatics be in favour of being a part of it then?? The MEP's we elect make no difference whatsoever to the commission. You have to be a democratic country to be in the EU, as a democracy you send your head of state to lead the Commission and you select one representative to be part of the Commission. The last attempts for direct democracy for this selection process (rather than leave it in the hands of the Prime-Ministers/Presidents etc) was mostly blocked because the UK felt it was not necessary. That debate was never held in the media here because the media here don't understand/care about the EU unless they can bash it. So that is the end of that first argument. The second argument is even more laughable, if I recall well you were all for campaigning for UKIP, well that was great, but that was also the precise reason why the UK MEPs don't make any difference in the EU PARLIAMENT, they have nothing to do with the commission other than ratify policies that the Commissioners propose. Your post demonstrates, more than anything, that you haven't got a scooby about the EU and how it works, which seemingly makes you the perfect Brexit campaigner, the blind leading the blind and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 You have to be a democratic country to be in the EU, as a democracy you send your head of state to lead the Commission and you select one representative to be part of the Commission. The last attempts for direct democracy for this selection process (rather than leave it in the hands of the Prime-Ministers/Presidents etc) was mostly blocked because the UK felt it was not necessary. That debate was never held in the media here because the media here don't understand/care about the EU unless they can bash it. Our head of state is the Queen. I don't think I've seen her at the EU commission meetings. So that is the end of that first argument. The second argument is even more laughable, if I recall well you were all for campaigning for UKIP, well that was great, but that was also the precise reason why the UK MEPs don't make any difference in the EU PARLIAMENT, they have nothing to do with the commission other than ratify policies that the Commissioners propose. Your post demonstrates, more than anything, that you haven't got a scooby about the EU and how it works, which seemingly makes you the perfect Brexit campaigner, the blind leading the blind and all that. It really doesn't matter why the EU doesn't work for the UK. The fact is that is doesn't. With any luck that won't matter soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 So that is the end of that first argument. The second argument is even more laughable, if I recall well you were all for campaigning for UKIP, well that was great, but that was also the precise reason why the UK MEPs don't make any difference in the EU PARLIAMENT, they have nothing to do with the commission other than ratify policies that the Commissioners propose. So it doesn't work for the UK because we elect the wrong MEP's. Clearly it also wouldn't work if we selected a set of MEP's we didn't want, because they would just vote for things we don't want them to vote for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Our head of state is the Queen. I don't think I've seen her at the EU commission meetings. Is pedantry considered an art form or a nuisance? It really doesn't matter why the EU doesn't work for the UK. The fact is that is doesn't. With any luck that won't matter soon. "I don't understand it, so I don't want it!" The farmer said when the man explained the advantages of a tractor over a horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Is pedantry considered an art form or a nuisance? "I don't understand it, so I don't want it!" The farmer said when the man explained the advantages of a tractor over a horse. We do understand it and we don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 So it doesn't work for the UK because we elect the wrong MEP's. Clearly it also wouldn't work if we selected a set of MEP's we didn't want, because they would just vote for things we don't want them to vote for. The joys of democracy. ---------- Post added 05-03-2016 at 12:39 ---------- We do understand it and we don't like it. That isn't particularly evident in the majority of posts in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 The joys of democracy. Yep and it least we are being the democratic right to vote leave or stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Is pedantry considered an art form or a nuisance? If you seek to educate us on the workings of the commission then you should probably know them first. "I don't understand it, so I don't want it!" The farmer said when the man explained the advantages of a tractor over a horse. Absolutely. Same thing clearly. Since the EU is a newer establishment than the UK it must be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Are you saying we don't know what the population of the country is? It's possible we have a variance of maybe 0.5-1% based on free movement but there won't be millions of extra people here. Unless you have evidence? The issue about unilateral trade deals with non-EU partners is that the deals can be be loaded with clauses about movement of workers and students. We've been through this already. The issue with access to a single market is we still have to allow free movement of people. We've been through that as well. Quite simply the Brexit camp is offering some kind of magical solution to the problem that it can never guarantee. That's the simple truth. ---------- Post added 05-03-2016 at 10:48 ---------- On the contrary it seems to be a key concern of some people. That is the reason it is being discussed. In the last five years 2.25million EU nationals have registered for a national insurance number but according to the ONS just one million EU citizens have arrived in the country in the same period... yes, I don't think we know how many people are in the country. The EU position may currently be that there must be free movement of people for a country to have access to the single market but there is no reason that cannot change. The fact is that this is not essential for the single market to function and if enough countries say they don't want to be part of an EU on those terms then the EU will have no choice but to change this condition. And the political tide across Europe is surging towards political parties that want an end to EU control over immigration... try and look beyond the here and now. Brexit doesn't offer any magically solution or guarantees... just as staying doesn't. What it does is allow us to be the masters of our own destiny and that will do for me. Follow this link and you'll see a poll that list the main concerns of the British people. You won't find 'ever greater union with the EU' anywhere on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Follow this link and you'll see a poll that list the main concerns of the British people. You won't find 'ever greater union with the EU' anywhere on the list. Nice link, the key concern being immigration, sort that one concern out and the rest become much more manageable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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