sutty27 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) If people preface their opinions with "in my opinion" then they may, just may, remember it is their opinion and not, just because they keep repeating it, a fact. I am sure that everyone expressing their opinion knows that it is an opinion. ---------- Post added 05-03-2016 at 13:53 ---------- No I'm not scaremongering. Free movement of people is a requirement for Norway and Switzerland participating in the single market. If we expect to follow either of those models it would be the same for us. Because that is the deal that made them happy, it won't happen here. Regarding trade deals with non-EU partners clauses around movement of people are already included. Bury your head in the sand all you want but these clauses would be foisted on us and we'd be in a weaker position to resist them. There are also trade deals all over the world that don't include free movement of people between the trading partners. It won't happen because the UK population would be very unhappy about such a deal and the political party that introduced it would be committing political suicide. Edited March 5, 2016 by sutty27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 The problem being that the known situation is undesirable and guaranteed to get much worse. How is it guaranteed to get much worse? In what ways? What is going to happen? And how can you prove it will be worse than leaving? This is the problem with the leave campaign (well both campaigns really). There is no meat on the bones and any difficult questions are met with accusations of scaremongering. It's not productive. It's going to be a tiring few months ---------- Post added 05-03-2016 at 13:57 ---------- I am sure that everyone expressing their opinion knows that it is an opinion. ---------- Post added 05-03-2016 at 13:53 ---------- Because that is the deal that made them happy, it won't happen here. There are also trade deals all over the world that don't include free movement of people between the trading partners. It won't happen because the UK population would be very unhappy about such a deal and the political party that introduced it would be committing political suicide. Then we will most likely find it difficult to trade. Once we leave and try to negotiate single market access then free movement is going to be a given. And we'll be in a take it or leave it situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 How is it guaranteed to get much worse? In what ways? What is going to happen? And how can you prove it will be worse than leaving? This is the problem with the leave campaign (well both campaigns really). There is no meat on the bones and any difficult questions are met with accusations of scaremongering. It's not productive. It's going to be a tiring few months Since you like looking at the past to determine the future I will use the past to determine the future, in the past the EU moved from good to bad therefore it will continue down that path. What reason do have to think the EU will change for the better if we stay in, its not like there is any precedent for it getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Just once, I'd like to people to add: "in my opinion" when stating "facts". Has not the EU set up a European Court to which the supreme courts of the sovereign nation member states are subordinate? Doesn't the EU dictate immigration policy to sovereign nation member states also? Are such powers over the sovereign member states actually necessary for the EU to function as a trade body? Is it no the case that the EU has exceeded the original mandate of a trade body and is now accumulating the powers necessary to run a federal European super-state? Which bit do you feel need to be qualified as an opinion and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Then we will most likely find it difficult to trade. Once we leave and try to negotiate single market access then free movement is going to be a given. And we'll be in a take it or leave it situation. We import more than we export and the countries that want to sell to us will not want to stop selling to us, therefore they will buy in order to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Staying offers a known situation. You can't argue with that. The know position is that we have ceded sovereign powers that would allow us to decide our own laws and immigration policy. That is something that most people want reversed. The future, in or out of the EU, is unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gomgeg Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 We import more than we export and the countries that want to sell to us will not want to stop selling to us, therefore they will buy in order to sell. That point has been made time and time again on here, and doesn't get answered by the stayer inners, probably some sort of symptom of insecurity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 How is it guaranteed to get much worse? In what ways? What is going to happen? And how can you prove it will be worse than leaving? This is the problem with the leave campaign (well both campaigns really). There is no meat on the bones and any difficult questions are met with accusations of scaremongering. It's not productive. It's going to be a tiring few months Can't prove future event and I thought you was part of the leave campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 We import more than we export and the countries that want to sell to us will not want to stop selling to us, therefore they will buy in order to sell. They need us less than you think they do. Taking Renault as an example they need to sell 75,000 vehicles a year in the UK to be able to run a viable operation here. If they cant hit that they'll probably just walk away. Just like that. Other businesses will make similar decisions. Again. Brutal truths. ---------- Post added 05-03-2016 at 15:51 ---------- The know position is that we have ceded sovereign powers that would allow us to decide our own laws and immigration policy. That is something that most people want reversed. The future, in or out of the EU, is unknown. What sovereign powers have we ceded? We can make our own immigration policy now, and we do. It's the policy that tops up our net immigration by around 150,000 a year with non-EU migrants. The EU doesn't force us to let all of those non-EU migrants in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) They need us less than you think they do. Taking Renault as an example they need to sell 75,000 vehicles a year in the UK to be able to run a viable operation here. If they cant hit that they'll probably just walk away. Just like that. Other businesses will make similar decisions. Again. Brutal truths. The British buy around 2.5 million new cars a year. If they didn't need us they wouldn't be trying to scare us into staying in the club. headlines like this tells me that the UK must have some clout. A British Exit From the EU Would Have Global Consequences Edited March 5, 2016 by sutty27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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