sutty27 Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Maybe, but what you are describing there is a recipe for economic instability and baked-in business uncertainty. We can't flip-flop trade deals every 5 years. Trade deals can take years to negotiate anyway. The alternative in the EU is a known situation that is supported by all the main UK political parties, except Ukip. What makes you think an elected UK government would flip-flop trade deals every 5 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Maybe, but what you are describing there is a recipe for economic instability and baked-in business uncertainty. We can't flip-flop trade deals every 5 years. Trade deals can take years to negotiate anyway. The alternative in the EU is a known situation that is supported by all the main UK political parties, except Ukip. We wouldn't flip-flop every 5 years. We should however reserve the option to do as as that is our sovereign right. The EU is not a known situation. In 1975 we signed up to one thing and we were delivered something radically different. It's not a known situation. It's just not. Really it's not. Nothing of the kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASGOWOODS Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35738541 Downing Street is surprised with this suspension. Yeh right. Edited March 6, 2016 by GLASGOWOODS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 What are the alternatives though? One of the leave websites was making great virtue of creating a trading bloc with the commonwealth. That means setting up a trading bloc of 60 states with two billion very ethnically diverse people, including 500m Muslims. NAFTA has been mentioned as a possible model but even that allows for movement of people and that kind of model combined with a commonwealth trading bloc could lead to a very stark change in the profile of UK immigration. So, as I've asked before where do we want immigrants to come from? I can't believe a lot of little Englander Brexiters have really thought this through to be honest. They should have: some of the info is there on the leave sites and it's really just a case of joining the dots. You are over complicated the decision. The question is not 'what will our immigration policy be if we leave the EU?' but 'do we want to be able to determine our own immigration policy?'. And 'do we want to determine our own laws or subjugate ourselves to the EU'? It is a matter of principle. If these questions were asked without a threat being hung over us, then the UK would overwhelming vote for self-determination. The only reason the decision is hanging in the balance is because we are being coerced by an EU that can't afford for member states to walk away if it is to realise it's dream of being a federal super-state. Whether the EU would carry out it's threats, or how how much it might cost us, is irrelevant to me and many others. It is simply a matter of principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hots on Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 It isn't just about objecting to certain types of people coming here. Absolutely. A Canadian brain surgeon or a Japanese physicist has to jump through hoops to come here, yet thousands of Romanian gypsies get the green light! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 What makes you think an elected UK government would flip-flop trade deals every 5 years? I don't. You suggested we could change things every 5 years by voting governments out. Presumably you include our trading relationships in those changes? ---------- Post added 06-03-2016 at 13:51 ---------- We wouldn't flip-flop every 5 years. We should however reserve the option to do as as that is our sovereign right. The EU is not a known situation. In 1975 we signed up to one thing and we were delivered something radically different. It's not a known situation. It's just not. Really it's not. Nothing of the kind. I don't think for us it is radically different. We do have a predominantly trade-based relationship. We have avoided fiscal and political integration. We have avoided Schengen and asylum accords. We have arrested further integration. We are much less integrated than you think. ---------- Post added 06-03-2016 at 13:53 ---------- Absolutely. A Canadian brain surgeon or a Japanese physicist has to jump through hoops to come here, yet thousands of Romanian gypsies get the green light! Yeah because they're not EU citizens and the Romanians are. So what is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 I don't. You suggested we could change things every 5 years by voting governments out. Presumably you include our trading relationships in those changes? We can change the elected government every five years and they sometimes do as they promised before they were elected, the more promises the brake the less likely they are to get elected next time round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 You are over complicated the decision. The question is not 'what will our immigration policy be if we leave the EU?' but 'do we want to be able to determine our own immigration policy?'. And 'do we want to determine our own laws or subjugate ourselves to the EU'? It is a matter of principle. If these questions were asked without a threat being hung over us, then the UK would overwhelming vote for self-determination. The only reason the decision is hanging in the balance is because we are being coerced by an EU that can't afford for member states to walk away if it is to realise it's dream of being a federal super-state. Whether the EU would carry out it's threats, or how how much it might cost us, is irrelevant to me and many others. It is simply a matter of principle. It always comes back to this vague notion of sovereignty and self-determination but the reality is that we are not being coerced into a federal superstate. The reality is we can't fiscally and politically integrate so we cant be part of the EU core in the same way as Germany or France. It will not happen in any of our lifetimes. I'm sorry but this woolly talk of sovereignty isn't going to keep people in jobs or put food on peoples tables. ---------- Post added 06-03-2016 at 13:58 ---------- We can change the elected government every five years and they sometimes do as they promised before they were elected, the more promises the brake the less likely they are to get elected next time round. So what about our trading relationships and how will a new government every 5 years help with those? You're dodging the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 So what about our trading relationships and how will a new government every 5 years help with those? You're dodging the question. I don't own a crystal ball so I couldn't possibly know what future UK governments will promise or do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 It always comes back to this vague notion of sovereignty and self-determination but the reality is that we are not being coerced into a federal superstate. The reality is we can't fiscally and politically integrate so we cant be part of the EU core in the same way as Germany or France. It will not happen in any of our lifetimes. I'm sorry but this woolly talk of sovereignty isn't going to keep people in jobs or put food on peoples tables. ---------- Post added 06-03-2016 at 13:58 ---------- So what about our trading relationships and how will a new government every 5 years help with those? You're dodging the question. Sovereignty and self-determination are not wooly. Nor is political accountability. You abandon these things at your considerable peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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