EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[I1L2T3]

I don't own a crystal ball so I couldn't possibly know what future UK governments will promise or do.

 

So it's a leap in the dark. You can't portray it any other way.

 

On the flip side you know exactly what governments will do if we stay in the EU.

 

Every party that has a realistic chance of being part of a government (either alone or part of a coalition) has continuation of EU membership as core policy. That means participation in the single market plus trade negotiation as a bloc with non-EU countries.

[sutty27]

So it's a leap in the dark. You can't portray it any other way.

 

On the flip side you know exactly what governments will do if we stay in the EU.

 

Every party that has a realistic chance of being part of a government (either alone or part of a coalition) has continuation of EU membership as core policy. That means participation in the single market plus trade negotiation as a bloc with non-EU countries.

 

Every day is a leap in the dark and being in or out of the EU doesn't change that.

 

So what will the next 50 years look like if we stay in and please provide proof to support your claims?

 

If you like the EU in its current form vote to stay in, if not not out.

[I1L2T3]

Sovereignty and self-determination are not wooly. Nor is political accountability.

You abandon these things at your considerable peril.

 

In this case they are because the leave campaign is not telling us exactly what they would do if they regained these powers from the EU.

 

It is all very vague and woolly. It gets worse when Brexiters start talking (seemingly without any kind of internal dialogue) about using the Norwegians or Swiss models for single market access because both of those absolutely guarantee loss of sovereignty. The thing they want is negated by something else they want.

 

As a Norwegian MP recently put it:

 

“If you want to run Europe, you must be in Europe. If you want to be run by Europe, feel free to join Norway in the European Economic Area.”

[sutty27]

In this case they are because the leave campaign is not telling us exactly what they would do if they regained these powers from the EU.

 

It is all very vague and woolly. It gets worse when Brexiters start talking (seemingly without any kind of internal dialogue) about using the Norwegians or Swiss models for single market access because both of those absolutely guarantee loss of sovereignty. The thing they want is negated by something else they want.

 

As a Norwegian MP recently put it:

 

“If you want to run Europe, you must be . If you want to be run by Europe, feel free to join Norway in the European Economic Area.”

 

We are already in Europe and we don't run it.

[Hots on]

 

Yeah because they're not EU citizens and the Romanians are.

 

So what is your point?

 

Yep, you're really a Brexit campaigner just making the in camp look stupid. Thought so. Keep up the good work.

[I1L2T3]

Every day is a leap in the dark and being in or out of the EU doesn't change that.

 

So what will the next 50 years look like if we stay in and please provide proof to support your claims?

 

If you like the EU in its current form vote to stay in, if not not out.

 

But every days isn't a leap in the dark is it. Every day while we are in the EU brings business certainty. If we stay in the EU in 50 years I'd expect us to still be in it.

 

Don't misunderstand though, I'm not happy with the EU. How could any of us truly be happy with it because of all the flaws? But I do think there are advantages to staying in and trying to re-shape it more to what we need. That doesn't mean changing the whole thing but cherry-picking the bits we want involvement in.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2016 at 14:20 ----------

 

Yep, you're really a Brexit campaigner just making the in camp look stupid. Thought so. Keep up the good work.

 

Seriously what is your point? Just explain it.

[unbeliever]

But every days isn't a leap in the dark is it. Every day while we are in the EU brings business certainty. If we stay in the EU in 50 years I'd expect us to still be in it.

 

Don't misunderstand though, I'm not happy with the EU. How could any of us truly be happy with it because of all the flaws? But I do think there are advantages to staying in and trying to re-shape it more to what we need. That doesn't mean changing the whole thing but cherry-picking the bits we want involvement in.

 

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin.

[I1L2T3]

We are already in Europe and we don't run it.

 

We have a great deal more influence in it than we would out of it, especially if we still want single market access after leaving.

[Zamo]

It always comes back to this vague notion of sovereignty and self-determination but the reality is that we are not being coerced into a federal superstate. The reality is we can't fiscally and politically integrate so we cant be part of the EU core in the same way as Germany or France. It will not happen in any of our lifetimes.

 

I'm sorry but this woolly talk of sovereignty isn't going to keep people in jobs or put food on peoples tables.

 

There is no 'vague' or 'woolly' notion of sovereignty. Most people in this country would prefer that all non-trade related laws were set down by our parliament and ruled on and enforced by our courts. But, as things stand, we are subordinate to the EU on these matters. It is crystal clear what aspects of sovereignty have been taken and what people want back.

 

Just how many jobs and how much food does the EU need to provide to buy our sovereignty in your view? You argue we should submit to subjugation because it will be more profitable and less dangerous. It is embarrassing.

[I1L2T3]

Benjamin Franklin.

 

What liberties have we lost? I keep hearing this argument so explain what it is you think we have lost, and whether we would be any more free if we left. And in what respects.

 

You have to make the case.