EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[taxman]

The ECHR thing is definitely a red herring. The referendum is not about our membership of it.

 

On other matters though I have to admit I'm wavering. The gusto with which Cameron has supported TTIP this week makes me nervous. It's the same very business-like approach the Tories take with other unpopular policies. It's the approach they use when they try to avoid and undermine scrutiny.

 

The approach to TTIP is the focus now. For us I want the EU to be a primarily trade body. If TTIP is the future then I'm not sure we want to be fully part of it.

 

I'm now 50:50 leave:stay

 

Isn't the TTP thing under serious threat now because various European countries are waking up to the threat it poses to their sovereignty?

 

People are casting a cynical eye over it and it may die a death.

 

How more likely would a British Govt, unencumbered by European concerns, rush to embrace TTIP? I'd rather trust a coalition of European Governments and their populations than Cameron.

[JFKvsNixon]

Isn't the TTP thing under serious threat now because various European countries are waking up to the threat it poses to their sovereignty?

 

People are casting a cynical eye over it and it may die a death.

 

How more likely would a British Govt, unencumbered by European concerns, rush to embrace TTIP? I'd rather trust a coalition of European Governments and their populations than Cameron.

 

Very true, I'd trust the EU to stand up against the multi-nationals over our national government.

[I1L2T3]

Isn't the TTP thing under serious threat now because various European countries are waking up to the threat it poses to their sovereignty?

 

People are casting a cynical eye over it and it may die a death.

 

How more likely would a British Govt, unencumbered by European concerns, rush to embrace TTIP? I'd rather trust a coalition of European Governments and their populations than Cameron.

 

Yes that's another way of looking at it. If the other EU countries scupper TTIP then the EU is where I'd want us to be.

 

Like I said it's making me very nervous. Cameron's demeanour has all the hallmarks of a Tory bang this thing in at all costs mission. That generally means whatever it is they're up to isn't good.

[Guest]

 

How more likely would a British Govt, unencumbered by European concerns, rush to embrace TTIP? I'd rather trust a coalition of European Governments and their populations than Cameron.

 

Very true, I'd trust the EU to stand up against the multi-nationals over our national government.

 

Then you're mad. You can at least get rid of our national governments, or pressure them through the media to change policy.

[JFKvsNixon]

Then you're mad. You can at least get rid of our national governments, or pressure them through the media to change policy.

 

I thought that the EU politicians were voted in or appointed by elected officials?

[MikeFrank]

Very true, I'd trust the EU to stand up against the multi-nationals over our national government.

 

They're a 2 year period before anything changes... a little later a Labour government will be elected? Are you saying a Labour government won't be elected?

[JFKvsNixon]

They're a 2 year period before anything changes... a little later a Labour government will be elected? Are you saying a Labour government won't be elected?

 

I know what each individual word meant, but when you put them together in that order, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

Maybe if you paraphrased your statement it would help.

[MikeFrank]

I know what each individual word meant, but when you put them together in that order, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

Maybe if you paraphrased your statement it would help.

 

We have a chance to elect parties we want. Are you saying that if a Labour Party is elected in 2020 they wouldn't right any wrongs a Brexit would result in. ie workers rights etc?

[L00b]

On other matters though I have to admit I'm wavering. The gusto with which Cameron has supported TTIP this week makes me nervous. It's the same very business-like approach the Tories take with other unpopular policies. It's the approach they use when they try to avoid and undermine scrutiny.

 

The approach to TTIP is the focus now. For us I want the EU to be a primarily trade body. If TTIP is the future then I'm not sure we want to be fully part of it.

 

I'm now 50:50 leave:stay

Cameron's current gusto and continuing opacity about the UK's TTIP negotiations is only mirroring the EU Commission's older gusto and opacity about the EU's TTIP negotiations, which is the same gusto and opacity about TTIP as exhibited by most of the 1st and 2nd world governments involved in negotiations about it (the only public info and docs to have been released so far, were from NZ and NL, and these were unsanctioned leaks by activists who had managed to get hold of drafts, e.g. Greenpeace).

 

Common sense suggests that a Brexit would only precipitate the UK's signing up to it, as a palliative/interim measure to preserve trading advantages with the US, as the UK self-exits the scope of existing EU/US trade-related agreements. Given that Cameron will enjoy a Parliamentary majority for another 4 years, it'd be a shoe-in.

 

As noted by taxman above, MEPs at the EU Parliament, both motivated by the Commission's elbowing of consultative due process and pushed by increasingly-aware public opinion, are finally starting to get grip and traction 'against' the Commission's mandarins and forcing proper democratic debate about the TTIP in Brussels and Strasbourg, whereby increasing delays caused by increasing consultations.

 

So if you want at least a modicum of democratically-represented input into TTIP negotiations insofar as it may affect the UK, then you'd want to vote against Brexit: in or out of the EU, the UK will eventually be signed up to it, IMHO sooner and with less democratic input if it Brexits.

 

Gives a whole new context to arch-US capitalist Trump's persistent advocating for a Brexit, don't you think?

 

I attended a socio-professional do in Manchester last night, in which HHJ Hacon was giving a talk with Q&A about the IPEC (which is currently the envy of many countries, EU and not, not to say the world, as a forum to litigate IP conflicts fast and cheap). Much of the Q&As were about the Unified Patent Court and much of the chit-chat over dinner was about the forthcoming referendum.

 

Unsurprisingly, HHJ Hacon confirmed much of what I've posted in here some days or weeks ago (Brexit = UPC will be s**t-canned or the UK's portion of it in the Chancery will be offshored to Germany or Italy; the UK's IPEC will cease to be a Community Court for litigating EU trademark and design conflicts; UK claimants and defendants who still have commercial activity and IP conflicts in the EU will have to go to France or Germany instead, both for acquiring such rights and enforcing them).

 

Surprisingly however, some of the British attorneys I spoke to were making plans to relocate to the EU in case of a Brexit vote.

Edited May 6, 2016 by L00b

[Guest]

I thought that the EU politicians were voted in or appointed by elected officials?

 

You and I cannot vote away those Polish, German and French etc MEP's that might be acting/voting not in Britain's interest. Britain has suffered from qualified majority voting in the EU big time.