tzijlstra Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Surely the EU tariffs can do nothing other than discourage trade with the rest of the world. What, like the UK tariffs did before joining the EEA? Point me to a country, any country in the world, that does not have tariffs? Also, please don't ignore the point about trade deficit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) Here's a thought. The UK's trade deficit with the EU (just under half our trade) is rather higher than with the rest of the world (just over half our trade). Whilst inside the single market we're discouraging trade with the rest of the world and encouraging it with the EU. Eh? How so? Surely the EU tariffs can do nothing other than discourage trade with the rest of the world.No more than the rest of the world's tariffs "can do nothing other than discourage trade with" the EU and the UK within it. And yet, that hasn't ever stopped the UK from trading quite successfully with outra-EU countries, as you pointed yourself earlier. And the world and its dog, including the EU and the UK, all work hand-in-hand at the WTO (wherein the UK gets two votes by virtue of its EU membership, when the EU only gets the one) towards reducing tariffs forever and more (these things take a long time, always have, likely always will...btw, "back of queue" rings a bell? That's how and why). Anyway, considering the tariffs imposed on Iceland, Norway and Switzerland by the EU, in the context of these countries' longstanding and enduring willingness to remain full members of the EFTA, one has to wonder how "discouraging" these tariffs actually are? Edited May 11, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 What, like the UK tariffs did before joining the EEA? Point me to a country, any country in the world, that does not have tariffs? Also, please don't ignore the point about trade deficit. I wasn't terribly worried about the trade deficit. But it's not a good thing. ---------- Post added 11-05-2016 at 17:01 ---------- No more than the rest of the world's tariffs "can do nothing other than discourage trade with" the EU and the UK within it. And yet, that hasn't ever stopped the UK from trading quite successfully with outra-EU countries, as you pointed yourself earlier. And the world and its dog, including the EU and the UK, all work hand-in-hand at the WTO (wherein the UK gets two votes by virtue of its EU membership, when the EU only gets the one) towards reducing tariffs forever and more (these things take a long time, always have, likely always will...btw, "back of queue" rings a bell? That's how and why). Anyway, considering the tariffs imposed on Iceland, Norway and Switzerland by the EU, in the context of these countries' longstanding and enduring willingness to remain full members of the EFTA, one has to wonder how "discouraging" these tariffs actually are? Excellent. So we'll have no trouble trading with the EU from outside the single market then. Glad we settled that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Is it? What is stopping me from going outside now? I heard a similar argument this morning, the EU isn't stopping the UK increasing trade with the Commonwealth, is it? It is a pants argument Sutty, that holds no water until you can explain how the EU stops the UK looking outside. Until then Brexit is an isolationist policy without any ifs or buts. No it really isn't, migrants will still come from all over the world and we will still trade with people from all over the world, I know that it miffs you because you will likely be one of the losers, but take comfort in the fact that most people will benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 No it really isn't, migrants will still come from all over the world and we will still trade with people from all over the world, I know that it miffs you because you will likely be one of the losers, but take comfort in the fact that most people will benefit. How, pray tell, would I be 'one of the losers'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 How, pray tell, would I be 'one of the losers'? You tell me, its you that wants to stay in. Are you now saying you will be better off if we leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 You tell me, its you that wants to stay in. Are you now saying you will be better off if we leave? I really haven't got a clue what you are talking about here, you specifically mentioned me as 'one of the losers' suggesting I would lose something personally, so how does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I really haven't got a clue what you are talking about here, you specifically mentioned me as 'one of the losers' suggesting I would lose something personally, so how does that work? Would you like to talk to me instead? I know we disagree, often annoy each other, but I'm not Sutty. What do you think of my point to L00b that there are 2 propositions in conflict. 1. EU tariffs are not inhibiting UK trade with the rest of the world 2. Being outside the single market (and therefore potentially subject to those tariffs) would adversely impact UK trade with the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I really haven't got a clue what you are talking about here, you specifically mentioned me as 'one of the losers' suggesting I would lose something personally, so how does that work? So are you not going loose anything if we leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) Excellent. So we'll have no trouble trading with the EU from outside the single market then. Glad we settled that.For trade with the EU, given that the example basis in my post was the EFTA's Norway, Iceland (who has now committed to re-integrating the EU...LOL!) and Switzerland, thus premising in your post above that the UK becomes an EFTA member (meaning freedom movement preserved for EU nationals and the EU telling the UK how it's going to go down with EU trade at all times and how much for - but now without the UK getting any say in it at all ), no, no trouble at all. If no EFTA membership, then we'll be considered like the US, China, Brazil, India <etc> and cop for the full EU tariffs and non-tariff barriers. Glad we cleared that up indeed What do you think of my point to L00b that there are 2 propositions in conflict. 1. EU tariffs are not inhibiting UK trade with the rest of the world 2. Being outside the single market (and therefore potentially subject to those tariffs) would adversely impact UK trade with the EU. They're not in conflict: they're not mutually exclusive. Edited May 11, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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