EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[chalga]

3 weeks ago my friend got a phone call saying his dad had suddenly died. He works for minimum wage and literally had no cash so I volunteered to help financially and go with him to his home as he was devastated. Did I mention he was from Latvia, booked the flights and went to Latvia, landed and got a taxi. A two hour travel to his village where we spent a week seeing to the funeral and arranging his fathers matters. During that week I saw one Lorry, two tractors and loads of horses pulling carts with families on them going about their business. When we needed to go back to the airport a man in the village who was one of two,people that owned a car took us to the airport. I did not think Ladas that old still existed.

I suggest Chalga that should you decide to visit a country that is not Spain or Greece then try Latvia with its beautiful scenery and once there get off the tourist beaten track and you may be surprised at what you see.

 

I am in Rumania loads of times every year,I can tell you for sure what is the main mode of transport there,and guess what,it isn't a horse and cart.

[L00b]

That doesn't sound right to me.

I had a thinking that it wouldn't

It appears to me that it is loss of national control of policy which is at the root of the rise of nationalism.

The rise of nationalist parties is consistently associated with rising xenophobia, rather than 'surrender of national policy control' which is just tagged onto it under the catch-all of 'loss of sovereignty'.

 

Witness: it doesn't matter how often you explain to the numerous Kippers and Brexiters in plain terms and with supporting evidence that the UK's PBS lets in more non-EU migrants who contribute less to the UK (relative to EU migrants), than the freedom of personal movement lets in EU migrants who contribute more the UK (relative to non-EU migrants), they just want to Brexit to curb immigration. Therefore, arguably and logically, what they want is "anything which lets in less migrants".

 

When, objectively (from a purely apolitical and Cartesian resources-based standpoint), what the UK and its public should want, is more EU nationals (contributing more) and less non-EU nationals (contributing less). You can see the irrationality of wanting to Brexit for curbing immigration right there.

 

And the funniest thing, is that the UK could do that (shift the EU to non-EU immigration ratio) right now, by playing about with its national entry requirement criteria under its national PBS. Unhindered by the EU in any way. And, still funnier, that the UK has been able to do that for the last 8 years.

Restoring national control is, in my view, more likely to mitigate the problem.

Given the context of the thread and the fact that the UK has at all times had, and still has, full control of its borders and an opt-out which it has consistently exercised in relation to last year's non-EU immigrants (asylum seekers and others), I'm singularly failing to understand how Brexiting is going to 'restore' national control of borders: what is there to 'restore'?

 

Same goes for anything else policy-wise which the EU has 'stolen' from EU member states (which, for the n-th time in this thread as in so many others, are at all times free to implement EU legislation into their national legislation as, and how slow or fast, they see fit).

 

How is the UK outside the EU going to mitigate the problem of illegals trying to get into the UK? For a start, France may tell H.M.Border Force in Coquelles to pack up and board the last shuttle, remove all the British x-ray machines and customs booth, and save a bob or ten by stopping to fill the place to the gills with busloads of CRS on standby for keeping the illegals at bay. What's the UK's "recovered" national control going to do? I mean, aside from setting up arriving and processing camps all along the British south east coast?

Edited May 12, 2016 by L00b

[panzer1]

Never been to Rumania but have been Estonia, Latvia, Serbia, Lithuania and the horse and cart is more common than you think. Worked in Poland for two years travelling round putting up phone masts for mobiles all over and often in remote areas, even there the horse and cart was as common as the car once you were outside major towns and cities.

[Guest]

Never been to Rumania but have been Estonia, Latvia, Serbia, Lithuania and the horse and cart is more common than you think. Worked in Poland for two years travelling round putting up phone masts for mobiles all over and often in remote areas, even there the horse and cart was as common as the car once you were outside major towns and cities.

 

You say this as if this is a bad thing.

[panzer1]

Loob the fact that France may chuck out HM customs would alter nothing as far as the immigrants are concerned. These people are illegal immigrants in France but do the French do anything non. If they implemented eu law they would make them register in France or deport them. Doing either option places a financial burden on France and they do not want it. Instead they move the immigrants about a bit, give them nicer places to stay and the immigrants stay there and try each night to get in to the uk. Wether the immigrant does it within a week or within a decade it makes no difference as the immigrant is left there, fed and looked after by charities, until such time as they make a successful entry into the uk whence we have to start paying for them, by putting up centres or deporting them. The fact that such things appeared in the rich south of this country, at least for initial reception, may persuade the govt of the time and future ones to do something about the matter as the electorate may be a little peeved.So I ask you what difference a Brexit would make to this fact.

 

---------- Post added 12-05-2016 at 12:59 ----------

 

Alan never said it was a bad thing, the people of these countries could teach us a thing or two about living a more sedate stress free life than what we do.

[L00b]

Loob the fact that France may chuck out HM customs would alter nothing as far as the immigrants are concerned. These people are illegal immigrants in France but do the French do anything non. If they implemented eu law they would make them register in France or deport them. Doing either option places a financial burden on France and they do not want it.

A metric ton of poppycock.

 

France indeed makes the Calais illegals register and chucks many out (France gets 70,000 asylum seekers a year, chucks out 30,000 a year - I suggest that you check the UK's numbers...if you can find them).

 

The core problem is that it's a never-ending issue, because the camps' populations are permanently kept up by new arrivals, filtering in through the EU.

Instead they move the immigrants about a bit, give them nicer places to stay and the immigrants stay there and try each night to get in to the uk.

France recognises that these people are humans too and, since the problem can't realistically be eradicated any time soon, might as well try and confine them to somewhere decent enough. I can't imagine that you'd have a problem with that, surely?

Wether the immigrant does it within a week or within a decade it makes no difference as the immigrant is left there, fed and looked after by charities, until such time as they make a successful entry into the uk whence we have to start paying for them, by putting up centres or deporting them.

You are aware that most of the charities in the Calais area are British charities, right?

The fact that such things appeared in the rich south of this country, at least for initial reception, may persuade the govt of the time and future ones to do something about the matter as the electorate may be a little peeved.So I ask you what difference a Brexit would make to this fact.

None whatsoever.

 

The UK will continue to be the magnet that it's always been for immigrants all over the world, due to its global image and reputation of prosperity, stability and fairness.

 

I don't imagine that any amount of political influence would ever change that (thankfully), and so both the legals and the illegals will keep trying, and so some illegals will keep succeeding, whatever happens to them after they get here.

 

Though you might have something there: perhaps the Gvt and politicians will indeed displace the problem from the south, with setting up the camps much further north than Watford, where land is cheap and opinions matter less. Plenty of brownfield sites around Sheffield. Personally, I'd sooner illegals were kept in northern France and followed due immigration processes, but hey-ho, it takes all sorts, I'm not telling you what to think: if you want them here in our fair City of Sanctuary, by all means go Brexit

Edited May 12, 2016 by L00b

[tzijlstra]

Alan never said it was a bad thing, the people of these countries could teach us a thing or two about living a more sedate stress free life than what we do.

 

And isn't it excellent that we can do just that. I read your last few posts here and can't work out at all what anything has to do with the EU referendum?

[panzer1]

So you are saying it would make no difference. Glad we agree. I will be voting Brexit because the fact an unelected political elite dictate what I can and cannot do with regards to bent bananas, power of Hoovers irks me. The fact I cannot, and neither can the eu parliament, get rid of these eu mandarins irks me so it is Brexit all the way.

The fact that an eu law if defeated in the eu parliament can be introduced as a regulation instead without ever going back to the parliament irks me so Brexit all the way.

In case you are unsure I am for Brexit.

 

---------- Post added 12-05-2016 at 13:33 ----------

 

The point about horse and carts is that these countries have meps and often band together with neighbours to form voting blocks. They vote on experience gained in the heir countries, they have an inkling of how my life is but no real understanding. As they vote as a block and we very rarely get our neighbours, the French etc to vote on our side we rarely win anything that is to the benefit of the U.K.

The so called reformed eu is a fallacy everything Cameron gained has to be ratified by the meps ( even Cameron has admitted this ), so if it not in the interest of these eastern countries they can still scupper it. The seven year brake if instigated in 2017 finishes in 2024 and we are back to where we are now. We can keep the pound, we have it now so no gain there. So where is the reformed eu , where it was at the start of the renegotiation, in the ether.

[tzijlstra]

So you are saying it would make no difference. Glad we agree. I will be voting Brexit because the fact an unelected political elite dictate what I can and cannot do with regards to bent bananas, power of Hoovers irks me. The fact I cannot, and neither can the eu parliament, get rid of these eu mandarins irks me so it is Brexit all the way.

The fact that an eu law if defeated in the eu parliament can be introduced as a regulation instead without ever going back to the parliament irks me so Brexit all the way.

In case you are unsure I am for Brexit.

 

I was sure, I just hadn't got a clue how anything you said previously relates to the EU.

[panzer1]

The eu is allegedly run by the European Parliament who in turn make decisions that affect my life. The people in the uk parliament have a fairly good idea of what my life entails but probably have very little idea of what the average Latvian is concerned with. I would rather people in Westminster make decisions that affect me than Eastern European meps, it's as simple as that. You can say the eu is a democracy but I do not agree, the Germans carry the most weight due to the financial input they have, the strength of their manufacturing base which has been destroyed here by various govts

I hate the fact how we always play fair, following judgements to the letter yet other countries ignore judgements against them, the French refused to admit British beef after the bse crisis even when ordered by the eu, the Spanish continue to ignore decisions against fishing around the uk.

It just feels that the rest of the eu take the p:ss to put it bluntly.