EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[L00b]

So you are saying it would make no difference. Glad we agree.

Not really.

 

No Brexit means that the current setup with France would remain as the status quo, wherein the illegals are kept in France.

 

Brexit means that illegals may not be kept in France anymore, and so waved on to UK shores.

 

Brexit would make no difference to "The fact that such things [ND: illegals camps] appeared in the rich south of this country, at least for initial reception, may persuade the govt of the time and future ones to do something about the matter as the electorate may be a little peeved": the UK would see more illegals arrive on its shores, whether they then be kept down south or shipped up north because the southern British electorate is a little peeved. That's because it would all be downstream of a Brexit.

 

Why do some Brexiters always adopt this simplistic debating tactic, understanding what they want to understand rather than what it actually means? It makes you look daft.

In case you are unsure I am for Brexit.

Well, I never! Fill your boots

Edited May 12, 2016 by L00b

[panzer1]

Max I applaud your utopian dream for the human race but alas I fear it will never happen. There is the odd pure soul but most of us are flawed with bias and bigotry. We cannot get on with each other on so many levels, even the same religions cannot exist together due to different views. We all have a bias of some description wether we will admit it or not.

I think there will be a war very soon and it will erupt where we least expect it.nato and the soviet states are unlikely but North Korea v anybody, Israel v Arab state and India v Pakistan are very likely. That said I wish you luck in your vision because if you get it then it's also a win for me and my offspring.

[alchresearch]

Cameron Vs Farage in the TV Debates:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36273499

[JFKvsNixon]

Cameron Vs Farage in the TV Debates:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36273499

 

According to your link, the Leave campaign are so outraged that Farage is representing them they are considering legal action.

[panzer1]

Loob you say Brexit would mean French waving through the illegals. No Brexit means they would stay where they are, being fed and housed until such time as they make a successful crossing. So in both cases they get here the second option just takes longer so as I say no change.

As I have said before this is but one facet, illegal immigration, the lawful immigration puts far more stress on public services and being in the eu we can do nothing to stop that. I know you will go on to say these people are young, they pay more tax than they take in benefits etc etc. As I stated previously people will vote on what they see and experiences that affect them directly rather than going into the effect on the economy etc, the dire warnings of which always include the words MAY,COULD,MIGHT,POSSIBLY whilst the outers use the same words for a positive spin.

I see Eastern Europeans about sheffield and I judge them by what I a see not the fact they may be paying more tax.

[L00b]

Loob you say Brexit would mean French waving through the illegals.

Yep, I said that.

No Brexit means they would stay where they are, being fed and housed until such time as they make a successful crossing.

Nope, I didn't say that. You did.

 

What I said was that they would stay where they are, being fed and housed until such time as their processing results in a residence permit or eviction. And that some of them would always try and make an illegal crossing and, within that, that some of them would always succeed.

So in both cases they get here the second option just takes longer so as I say no change.

Not really, but let's not get hung up on details, eh?

I see Eastern Europeans about sheffield and I judge them by what I see not the fact they may be paying more tax.

See, that's another point we differ on, quite fundamentally it seems: I can't tell whether someone I see in the street is British or not, unless they speak something other than English (and even then, there's plenty of multilingual British about, and plenty of unaccented English-speaking non-British about). That is particularly relevant for the East Europeans you mention, who are mostly Caucasians just like most (but not all, of course) Brits around these parts.

 

And I don't judge people on sight either. But that's what racists/xenophobes frequently do, let it be said.

Edited May 12, 2016 by L00b

[tzijlstra]

The eu is allegedly run by the European Parliament who in turn make decisions that affect my life. The people in the uk parliament have a fairly good idea of what my life entails but probably have very little idea of what the average Latvian is concerned with. I would rather people in Westminster make decisions that affect me than Eastern European meps, it's as simple as that. You can say the eu is a democracy but I do not agree, the Germans carry the most weight due to the financial input they have, the strength of their manufacturing base which has been destroyed here by various govts

I hate the fact how we always play fair, following judgements to the letter yet other countries ignore judgements against them, the French refused to admit British beef after the bse crisis even when ordered by the eu, the Spanish continue to ignore decisions against fishing around the uk.

It just feels that the rest of the eu take the p:ss to put it bluntly.

 

Let's look at the big issues that affect most people in this country and who is responsible for that.

 

Taxes - entirely regulated and set by the UK government (except for VAT-product categories in some small product areas)

Healthcare - the NHS is entirely run by the UK government

Pensions - entirely regulated by the UK government

Welfare - entirely regulated by the UK government

Defence - entirely regulated by the UK government

Housing - entirely regulated by the UK government

Education - entirely regulated by the UK government

Roads and public transport - entirely regulated by the UK government

Environment - co-operational between EU and the UK - some issues can not be tackled just by the UK

Trade - mostly by the EU

 

Keep blaming the EU for your rotten life, it is nothing to do with the UK government that care homes are closing, elderly and the disabled are treated like second class citizens and new homes are not being built. Apparently.

[Guest]

A metric ton of poppycock.

 

France indeed makes the Calais illegals register and chucks many out (France gets 70,000 asylum seekers a year, chucks out 30,000 a year - I suggest that you check the UK's numbers...if you can find them).

 

The core problem is that it's a never-ending issue, because the camps' populations are permanently kept up by new arrivals, filtering in through the EU.

France recognises that these people are humans too and, since the problem can't realistically be eradicated any time soon, might as well try and confine them to somewhere decent enough. I can't imagine that you'd have a problem with that, surely?

You are aware that most of the charities in the Calais area are British charities, right?

None whatsoever.

 

The UK will continue to be the magnet that it's always been for immigrants all over the world, due to its global image and reputation of prosperity, stability and fairness.

 

I don't imagine that any amount of political influence would ever change that (thankfully), and so both the legals and the illegals will keep trying, and so some illegals will keep succeeding, whatever happens to them after they get here.

 

Though you might have something there: perhaps the Gvt and politicians will indeed displace the problem from the south, with setting up the camps much further north than Watford, where land is cheap and opinions matter less. Plenty of brownfield sites around Sheffield. Personally, I'd sooner illegals were kept in northern France and followed due immigration processes, but hey-ho, it takes all sorts, I'm not telling you what to think: if you want them here in our fair City of Sanctuary, by all means go Brexit

 

Would migrants be able to physically turn up at Britain like they do at Calais? I just don't envisage a Sangatte-esque camp at Dover.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Guest

[L00b]

Would migrants be able to physically turn up at Britain like they do at Calais? I just don't envisage a Sangatte-esque camp at Dover.

EDIT: Putting aside the fact that they already do, to the tune of a few hundreds a year at least, despite the fencing, dogs, x-rays, patrols, etc, etc.

 

If I am correct about France in case of a Brexit, yes, they could simply buy a ferry or Chunnel passenger ticket and arrive in Dover or Folkestone.

 

Then they'd become our problem. Asylum claims, processing time and costs, including housing/feeding in the meantime, then possibly court case and appeals, eventually eviction and costs, <etc.> Juicy extra public contract for G4S, that

 

Makes the new extra-tall and extra-sharp fencing in Coquelles rather cheap by the metre, no?

Edited May 12, 2016 by L00b

[tzijlstra]

EDIT: Putting aside the fact that they already do, to the tune of a few hundreds a year at least, despite the fencing, dogs, x-rays, patrols, etc, etc.

 

If I am correct about France in case of a Brexit, yes, they could simply buy a ferry or Chunnel passenger ticket and arrive in Dover or Folkestone.

 

Then they'd become our problem. Asylum claims, processing time and costs, including housing/feeding in the meantime, then possibly court case and appeals, eventually eviction and costs, <etc.> Juicy extra public contract for G4S, that

 

Makes the new extra-tall and extra-sharp fencing in Coquelles rather cheap by the metre, no?

 

Sorry, you are both naive, there is a HUGE illegal immigrant population in the UK, hidden in garden-sheds, garages, attics and so on.

 

It is incredibly easy to get into Britain by boat. I know many Dutch sailors who frequently visit our harbours and never get asked to show a passport or anything like that. How many boats (including British fishing trawlers and other boats) visiting our harbours bring in illegal migrants? The ones stuck in Calais are the dumb ones.

 

PS - and that is not even mentioning those that come here on a 'holiday visum' and simply never return to their home country.