EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[sutty27]

Can we have a source for that rather tall claim, sutty?

 

If he did threaten to allow camps as retribution for a Brexit vote, i.e. outright blackmail, fair enough, I can understand your outrage.

 

But if he just drew attention to the likelihood of camps sprouting up following a Brexit (as I seem to recall that he did, and just as I did myself yesterday in the above posts), then your post is fairly disingenuous, don't you think?

 

Camps can only sprout up if the government allows them to sprout up, therefore if he says they will sprout up it's because the government is going to allow them to sprout up, if the government aren't going to allow them to sprout up they won't sprout up so no need to warn anyone.

 

that means the warning is a threat based on their intentions of allowing them.

[Ridgewalk]

Sprout up or not sprout up I'm just saying that the President of France and regional authorities are saying that France would no longer allow UK border control to be in France.

 

Just " a bluff". You hope

[999tigger]

Loob you say Brexit would mean French waving through the illegals. No Brexit means they would stay where they are, being fed and housed until such time as they make a successful crossing. So in both cases they get here the second option just takes longer so as I say no change.

As I have said before this is but one facet, illegal immigration, the lawful immigration puts far more stress on public services and being in the eu we can do nothing to stop that. I know you will go on to say these people are young, they pay more tax than they take in benefits etc etc. As I stated previously people will vote on what they see and experiences that affect them directly rather than going into the effect on the economy etc, the dire warnings of which always include the words MAY,COULD,MIGHT,POSSIBLY whilst the outers use the same words for a positive spin.

I see Eastern Europeans about sheffield and I judge them by what I a see not the fact they may be paying more tax.

 

Some sensible stuff in there.

 

 

They would probably get here quicker becayse they wouldn't have the French restraining them. As you rightly point out they are small beer compared to immigration from other sources.

 

If we decide to leave then any negotiation will need to cover what we do about the single market. If we want access to it we would almost certainly have to agree to the free movement of people as that is fundamental. Norway and Switzerland have both had to agree to free movement in the trade deals they negotiated. So if we leave we will have to decide if we want access to the single market or be on the outside.

[MikeFrank]

Not really: all it would do is displace the existing UK border checks from France to the UK. Since the checks would be the same, faster boarding in France, slower arrival in the UK. No change.

How so? See above.

Are you a betting man?

 

Everybody will go through the same process though so if the French are sending thousands through it will cause a delay. The ordinary French and European travellers and businesspeople will have to stand in line with all the migrants.

 

The French wouldn't do it. It will effect their businesses. The people massed at the border would have to go under greater scrutiny because many would claim asylum, if not all.

 

Yes I am a betting man.

[panzer1]

Everybody seems to espouse the free movement of people which may be true. The free movement at the moment puts great strain on our services particularly the nhs. Now I have no knowledge of this maybe one of you can enlighten me. Does Norway have to provide housing, healthcare, education, social security to these free moving people or do they just have to let them in to live if they have a job etc.

If the UK has to allow free movement, could we not do this but state they have to have travel insurance, are not allowed housing, education, social welfare payments unless they "emigrate" here. In this way they get the free movement but we do not get the financial strain on our devices. If this is not the case then I do not see why it cannot be, you can come here and work, source your own housing, take out medical insurance and claim your NI payments back when you leave. Merchant seamen which currently work for British companies on leaving back to Europe claim their NI payments back, fact.

I know this may well apply to uk citizens living in Europe and I see no problem with that, if you live abroad take out insurance in order to pay for any services used apparently we may all need it soon under TTIP anyway.

[tzijlstra]

Everybody seems to espouse the free movement of people which may be true. The free movement at the moment puts great strain on our services particularly the nhs. Now I have no knowledge of this maybe one of you can enlighten me. Does Norway have to provide housing, healthcare, education, social security to these free moving people or do they just have to let them in to live if they have a job etc.

If the UK has to allow free movement, could we not do this but state they have to have travel insurance, are not allowed housing, education, social welfare payments unless they "emigrate" here. In this way they get the free movement but we do not get the financial strain on our devices. If this is not the case then I do not see why it cannot be, you can come here and work, source your own housing, take out medical insurance and claim your NI payments back when you leave. Merchant seamen which currently work for British companies on leaving back to Europe claim their NI payments back, fact.

I know this may well apply to uk citizens living in Europe and I see no problem with that, if you live abroad take out insurance in order to pay for any services used apparently we may all need it soon under TTIP anyway.

 

the UK doesn't have to offer all these things, it is British legislation that is messing things up here. EU-migrants in the Netherlands aren't eligible for most benefits until they've worked in the Netherlands for four years. Cameron includes changing the national law into the EU-deal and the EU-President openly wonders what the point is of including national legislation in a negotiation with the EU.

 

I'll tell you why - Cameron is clueless.

[sutty27]

the UK doesn't have to offer all these things, it is British legislation that is messing things up here. EU-migrants in the Netherlands aren't eligible for most benefits until they've worked in the Netherlands for four years. Cameron includes changing the national law into the EU-deal and the EU-President openly wonders what the point is of including national legislation in a negotiation with the EU.

 

I'll tell you why - Cameron is clueless.

 

If our political leaders are clueless when it come to interpretation of EU rules then its better if we get out.

[panzer1]

Can I ask, after the dire threats from the IMF yesterday has any of the exiters changed their minds, has any of the undecided on here been swayed by these dire forecasts. The fact house prices may fall would mean that younger people may now be able to buy a house, interest rates will rise, will this not be good for savers. I know that they threaten recession but by the imfs own evidence the global economy at this time is slowing anyway.

Apparently Brexit is/will be to blame for every bad event that will befall mankind from interest rate rises up to and including world war 3, the only thing they have not been blamed for is the terrible events that happened to the Egyptians when they would not let the Israelites leave in the bible but there is time yet for that.

It seems that the only thing the remainers have are threats and intimidation, they never say you should stay because of these great things and list them. They cannot do this because they know these great things may/possibly/could still be there following Brexit such as trade, cheap air flights etc. All their dire threats always have a word like may/could/possiblyin them. Nobody can say what will happen because this event has never happened before and everybody is just guessing and speculating until such time that it does happen. Should brexit fail I am not disheartened because other countries may well follow with referendums now we have had one. Italy pays more than us to the eu ( but gets more out ), they have high unemployment, austerity measures and are now the invasion point for migrants that the rest of the eu do not want so maybe an Itexit is on the cards. I have not changed my point of view due to imf threats because I was adamant from the start and always realised there may be short term pain for long term gain and I own my own home so am willing to lose money on it, I have not had a wage rise for the last four years, I doubt an immigrant would even do my job for my wages ( had good job prior to this one before it outsourced to Europe ), I have savings so interest rate rise would be good. IfI get made redundant I know for a fact welfare payments would be higher because I have looked into it, I work due to personal pride.

So all in all no change for me, I am voting out for the sake of my kids future and any kids they may have because the chances of my kids going to live and work in the eu are very remote as are the chances for the majority of your kids and the rest of the us moving to live and work in Europe.

[JFKvsNixon]

Can I ask, after the dire threats from the IMF yesterday has any of the exiters changed their minds, has any of the undecided on here been swayed by these dire forecasts. The fact house prices may fall would mean that younger people may now be able to buy a house, interest rates will rise, will this not be good for savers. I know that they threaten recession but by the imfs own evidence the global economy at this time is slowing anyway.

Apparently Brexit is/will be to blame for every bad event that will befall mankind from interest rate rises up to and including world war 3, the only thing they have not been blamed for is the terrible events that happened to the Egyptians when they would not let the Israelites leave in the bible but there is time yet for that.

It seems that the only thing the remainers have are threats and intimidation, they never say you should stay because of these great things and list them. They cannot do this because they know these great things may/possibly/could still be there following Brexit such as trade, cheap air flights etc. All their dire threats always have a word like may/could/possiblyin them. Nobody can say what will happen because this event has never happened before and everybody is just guessing and speculating until such time that it does happen. Should brexit fail I am not disheartened because other countries may well follow with referendums now we have had one. Italy pays more than us to the eu ( but gets more out ), they have high unemployment, austerity measures and are now the invasion point for migrants that the rest of the eu do not want so maybe an Itexit is on the cards. I have not changed my point of view due to imf threats because I was adamant from the start and always realised there may be short term pain for long term gain and I own my own home so am willing to lose money on it, I have not had a wage rise for the last four years, I doubt an immigrant would even do my job for my wages ( had good job prior to this one before it outsourced to Europe ), I have savings so interest rate rise would be good. IfI get made redundant I know for a fact welfare payments would be higher because I have looked into it, I work due to personal pride.

So all in all no change for me, I am voting out for the sake of my kids future and any kids they may have because the chances of my kids going to live and work in the eu are very remote as are the chances for the majority of your kids and the rest of the us moving to live and work in Europe.

 

You talk about house price drops as helping out people who want to get on the housing ladder, then say the rising interest rates will help savers. Have you not worked out that any drop in house prices will be swallowed up by rising cost of mortgages that rising interest rates would bring? So the affordability of mortgages for first time house buyers might not necessarily be any better.

 

Also what may happen is that the drop in house prices would swallow up peoples equity, causing their mortgage payments to increase when they come to renew. When you couple this with the already rising interest rates then it could spell disaster for many home owners.

[sutty27]

You talk about house price drops as helping out people who want to get on the housing ladder, then say the rising interest rates will help savers. Have you not worked out that any drop in house prices will be swallowed up by rising cost of mortgages that rising interest rates would bring? So the affordability of mortgages for first time house buyers might not necessarily be any better.

 

Also what may happen is that the drop in house prices would swallow up peoples equity, causing their mortgage payments to increase when they come to renew. When you couple this with the already rising interest rates then it could spell disaster for many home owners.

 

But a lower price would mean a lower deposit so whilst they might pay the same over the life of the mortgage they will find it easier to save the deposit.

 

Everything that happens results in winners and losers, the loser after BREXIT will tend to be the rich and the winner will tend to be the young and poor, yes my house might fall in value but its a price I am willing to pay so that the younger generation get a better deal.

Edited May 14, 2016 by sutty27