Harrystottle Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Well here's one. Paul Mason's left wing case for leaving the EU. Rational. Until his conclusion, which is that he doesn't like Boris Johnson, so we should stay in. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/brexit-eu-referendum-boris-johnson-greece-tory#comment-74352613 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Well here's one. Paul Mason's left wing case for leaving the EU. Rational. Until his conclusion, which is that he doesn't like Boris Johnson, so we should stay in. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/brexit-eu-referendum-boris-johnson-greece-tory#comment-74352613 Instead, Johnson and the Tory right are seeking a mandate via the referendum for a return to full-blown Thatcherism: less employment regulation, lower wages, fewer constraints on business. If Britain votes Brexit, then Johnson and Gove stand ready to seize control of the Tory party and turn Britain into a neoliberal fantasy island. Sounds like he is worried that labour will never again be elected into government, if we leave and the British people don't like what the Tories do then we can kick them out and vote for someone else. Its a bizarre stance, voting to stay in because you dislike Tories more than the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) Well here's one. Paul Mason's left wing case for leaving the EU. Rational. Until his conclusion, which is that he doesn't like Boris Johnson, so we should stay in. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/brexit-eu-referendum-boris-johnson-greece-tory#comment-74352613 It's well-articulated, but severely flawed in its opening half. E.g. "the EU executive crushed Greece": Greece put itself in the situation of being a hair breadth's away from bankruptcy, twice over and never ifted a finger about it, just expecting to be bailed out time and again. Tsipras could have given the rods to Brussels and Grexited + devalued last year. No-one in Brussels put a gun to his head to take the German's 3rd bailout: he just didn't have the balls to see Syryza's electoral remit and mandate through, and just caved in. A year on and he's here again. E.g. the reference to the Viking and Laval cases as "subordinating workers’ right to strike to an employer’s right do business freely" is outright deception by Mason. Perhaps not surprising, considering his leanings. But saying all that, by and large the second half of this article mirrors my feelings about why the UK shouldn't Brexit at this time, and echoes a lot of my earlier arguments. That someone as lefty as Mason readily and positively acknowledges Cameron's negotiation outcomes in Brussels earlier this year, says all that needs to be said about the objectivity and intelligence of the Brexiters that demean them. Its a bizarre stance, voting to stay in because you dislike Tories more than the EU.If you read and understand the article, you'll find that this is not the case at all. It's a case of voting to stay in to avoid 4 decades' worth of socio-legal progress benefitting British consumers and workers from being undone in the next 2 years. Edited May 18, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 If you want to stay in the EU, this is the type of person you are supporting. The quotes of Jean Claude Junker, president of the EU commission. On Greece's economic meltdown in 2011:- "When it becomes serious, you have to lie". On EU monetary policy:- "I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates" On British calls for a referendum over Lisbon Treaty:- "Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?,” On French referendum over EU constitution:- “If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue’,” On the introduction of the euro:- "We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back." On eurozone economic policy and democracy:- “We all know what to do, we just don't know how to get re-elected after we've done it” So there you are. All these people who talk about a "reformed" EU? Crap. The EU isn't going to reform, just read Mr Junker's words. Reform? "On we go." "We continue". Officially, the opinion of the peoples of Europe does not matter. Only the EU elite are going to say what happens. If you want to be ruled by a lying, arrogant elite that is utterly contemptuous of you and that you cannot vote for and cannot get rid of, then crack on. Funny, the source for this is rock-solid, isn't it? Or did you fail tocheck that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 If you read and understand the article, you'll find that this is not the case at all. It's a case of voting to stay in to avoid 4 decades' worth of socio-legal progress benefitting British consumers and workers from being undone in the next 2 years. Thinking it will be undone in the next 2 years is a bizarre stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 The subtext to the conversation by many Brexit supporters is blindingly obvious. To the point that any argument will be raised, and and counter ignored to support their fear of foreigners. If you want to stay in the EU, this is the type of person you are supporting. The quotes of Jean Claude Junker, president of the EU commission. On Greece's economic meltdown in 2011:- "When it becomes serious, you have to lie". On EU monetary policy:- "I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates" On British calls for a referendum over Lisbon Treaty:- "Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?,” On French referendum over EU constitution:- “If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue’,” On the introduction of the euro:- "We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back." On eurozone economic policy and democracy:- “We all know what to do, we just don't know how to get re-elected after we've done it” So there you are. All these people who talk about a "reformed" EU? Crap. The EU isn't going to reform, just read Mr Junker's words. Reform? "On we go." "We continue". Officially, the opinion of the peoples of Europe does not matter. Only the EU elite are going to say what happens. If you want to be ruled by a lying, arrogant elite that is utterly contemptuous of you and that you cannot vote for and cannot get rid of, then crack on. As I said - any argument will be raised, and and counter ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrystottle Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Funny, the source for this is rock-solid, isn't it? Or did you fail tocheck that? Its the Daily Telegraph. If you want to sue them for defamation on Mr Junker's behalf, crack on. ---------- Post added 18-05-2016 at 10:11 ---------- Loob, what's your take on George Monbiot's logic? That he hates the EU but wants to remain in it? http://www.monbiot.com/2016/02/10/the-lesser-evil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little malc Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Something no one has mentioned yet...whichever way the vote goes there are going to be roughly half of the population highly disgruntled and angry. It could cause serious upset in the UK and politicians will have to work hard to mend fences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jukes Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Well here's one. Paul Mason's left wing case for leaving the EU. Rational. Until his conclusion, which is that he doesn't like Boris Johnson, so we should stay in. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/brexit-eu-referendum-boris-johnson-greece-tory#comment-74352613 Paul Mason has lost control of his faculties. Since "leaving" the left leaning Channel 4 news he has chosen to become an attack dog for a subsect of a subsect, exemplified best by his first post C4 post on Medium where he has garnered an insignificant following from which he launched his book Postcapitalism which even the Guardian said was confused. Boris is a clever narcissist. The only danger that could arise from him being PM is that he might do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrystottle Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Something no one has mentioned yet...whichever way the vote goes there are going to be roughly half of the population highly disgruntled and angry. It could cause serious upset in the UK and politicians will have to work hard to mend fences. It's a good point. Whichever way the vote goes, it won't be over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts