EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[tzijlstra]

It lacks some of the key attributes of a federal government, in the form of direct elections through which the government is chosen, a significant role in major policy areas, such as health, education, welfare foreign policy and defence, major tax raising and re-distributive powers etc. Even monetary union is far from complete, and still lacks the political union to support it. We only have to look at the current election battle in the US (a real federal union), where all of the issues mentioned above are contested areas between the parties, to realise that the EU is a very long way from being a federation.

 

Regarding the identity issue, of course it is true that people have multiple identities. However, the'EU' identity remains very weak, despite the EU's attempts to foster this, through creation of a European citizenship and the use of symbols, such as the flag and anthem. Moreover, there are still no genuine Pan-European parties in the EU. Elections are fought on national issues and the main reason why MEPs join party groups in the EP is to take advantage of the incentives being offered. I would like more information about the studies you mention about the increase in European national identity. It is true that the Eurobarometer surveys show that a significant proportion of the EU population may understand that they are EU citizens, but this is not the same as saying that the strength of EU identity is increasing, certainly not enough for it to matter very much. I will believe it when we see elections for the presidency of the EU, fought by genuinely Euro-wide parties on European-wide issues.

 

Good post,thanks for that.

 

I am in an internet-shy partof the world with only an old iPad around, but ifI get some time I will try and give a more detailed reply including sources.

[tinfoilhat]

I listed several sites showing the benefits of membership here: Max's post on positive EU things.

 

Thanks Max - its certainly a start. That said, its still a bit of broad brush (with the exception of the Pro Europa). Mind you does Joe Public want anything else aprt from a broad brush?

[sutty27]

Agree - I've yet to see anyone present some facts. "Here are the regulations the EU have voted in and we don't like" or "Here's some things the EU have done and benefit the country".

 

Its just noise. I think I posted something similar in this thread or another like it a month or so back. Nothing has changed.

 

Think of it like a trial, the prosecution will only say stuff that helps them, the defence will only say stuff that help them. Both might know the full facts but they aren't going to mention something that doesn't help their case.

[Solomon1]

The subtext to the conversation by many Brexit supporters is blindingly obvious. To the point that any argument will be raised, and and counter ignored to support their fear of foreigners.

 

Agreed

[Lex Luthor]

By evidence of this forum contributors alone, it seems to me that many Brexiters are proposing to vote according to confirmation bias based on what they're told the EU<>UK relationship is and how it works, rather than according to objective reasons based what the EU<>UK relationship actually is and how it actually works.

 

But rather than voters, who are not all born equal in the smarts and initiative/self-betterment department, I blame politicians and their spin doctors (on both sides) for that, engaging in their marketing-inspired, headline-led, over-simplification of issues for political effect (reduce any argument however complex to 3 words and keep repeating, louder than the other side). And also the British massmedia in good part, for its perennial lack of international and European perspective.

 

I hold as much contempt for the Remain's fearmongering as for UKIP/VoteLeave's disingenuous and populist rethoric. Neither helps the UK and the British as a whole.

 

Absolutely. With Cameron and Boris, it's like Dumb and Dumber are leading the way in both campaigns and they obviously think that the British public are the Dumbest. I feel totally betrayed by these two. They have brought nothing to help the public choose on facts. I can't help feeling that they are both 'in this together' and at the end, Boris is going to hand over a Euro to Cameron, instead of the

 

I think I'm going to end up spoiling my paper because I have absolutely no idea which way to vote. I just do not know enough facts about the important issues because they've been withheld from me.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Lex Luthor

[Anna B]

According to BBC Radio 4, the cost of transferring the EU Parliament to Strasbourg every month costs £130 million. Every month!

Can somebody tell me why, in these austere times, this is a good use of taxpayers money?

[Nagel]

Absolutely. With Cameron and Boris, it's like Dumb and Dumber are leading the way in both campaigns and they obviously think that the British public are the Dumbest. I feel totally betrayed by these two. They have brought nothing to help the public choose on facts. I can't help feeling that they are both 'in this together' and at the end, Boris is going to hand over a Euro to Cameron, instead of the

 

I think I'm going to end up spoiling my paper because I have absolutely no idea which way to vote. I just do not know enough facts about the important issues because they've been withheld from me.

 

The campaign on both sides has been appalling. Consider what a huge issue we have been given a choice about and then consider how little real information each side has used.

 

I suspect the discussion after the referendum will be about how bad each campaign was. If you believe in Remain your views have been represented by the FTSE100/Sunday Times Rich List and if you believe in Brexit you've been represented by idiots.

 

Nowhere in the regular media has there been a proper intelligent debate.

[sutty27]

Nowhere in the regular media has there been a proper intelligent debate.

 

That was never going to happen because different people have different opinions and different priorities.

[tzijlstra]

According to BBC Radio 4, the cost of transferring the EU Parliament to Strasbourg every month costs £130 million. Every month!

Can somebody tell me why, in these austere times, this is a good use of taxpayers money?

 

Nobody can, it was part of several treaties that were blocked because they sought further integration of union and better democratic processes. They keep getting blocked by people who vote against without understanding what the vote is for.

[Harrystottle]

At the moment the Common Agricultural Policy accounts for 39% of the entire EU budget. Why this should be so is a mystery to me. Maybe the fact that our big landowners do so well out of the CAP is a reason why the British public is kept in the dark on this.