EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[truman]

At the moment the Common Agricultural Policy accounts for 39% of the entire EU budget. Why this should be so is a mystery to me. Maybe the fact that our big landowners do so well out of the CAP is a reason why the British public is kept in the dark on this.

 

Don't the French gain more from CAP? More than twice the amount we get I think.

Edited May 19, 2016 by truman

[unbeliever]

At the moment the Common Agricultural Policy accounts for 39% of the entire EU budget. Why this should be so is a mystery to me. Maybe the fact that our big landowners do so well out of the CAP is a reason why the British public is kept in the dark on this.

 

Following Brexit, there's nothing to stop us maintaining all notionally EU funding in the UK, including farming subsidies, and we'd still have over £10bn/year left over.

[sutty27]

Don't the French gain more from CAP? More than twice the amount we get I think.

 

The Germans also gain more from it, probably because they've got more land than we have and a lower population density. The EU plans for the UK are to tun it into one huge city.

[L00b]

Don't the French gain more from CAP? More than twice the amount we get I think.

They get twice the PAC payments relative to the UK indeed, due to their much larger agricultural sector.

 

But are net contributors to the EU PAC budget. So no gain as such, a loss instead.

The Germans also gain more from it, probably because they've got more land than we have and a lower population density.

Wrong, the Germans also make a net contribution to the EU PAC budget:

Equity among member states

 

Some countries in the EU have larger agricultural sectors than others, notably France and Spain, and consequently receive more money under the CAP.[66] Countries such as the Netherlands and the United Kingdom have particularly urbanised populations and rely very little on agriculture as part of their economy (in the United Kingdom agriculture employs 1.6% of the total workforce and in the Netherlands 2.0%). The UK therefore receives less than half what France gets, despite a similar sized economy and population.[67] Other countries receive more benefit from different areas of the EU budget. Overall, certain countries make net contributions, notably Germany (the largest contribution overall) and the Netherlands (the biggest contribution per person), but also the UK and France. The largest per capita beneficiaries are Greece and Ireland.

Wiki about CAP.

 

Next incorrect pro-Brexit one-liner, if you please

Edited May 19, 2016 by L00b

[max]

Thanks Max - its certainly a start. That said, its still a bit of broad brush (with the exception of the Pro Europa). Mind you does Joe Public want anything else aprt from a broad brush?

 

You're welcome.

 

I've spoken to many members of the public, this includes party members/supporters, opposition members/supporters and people of no political persuasion. The impression I get is that, with the exception of the Little Englanders, most people want to know how much it will cost them to leave/remain, will it affect their 2 weeks abroad (in mainland Europe) and isn't it fun to watch the Tories rip themselves apart again.

[truman]

They get twice the PAC payments relative to the UK indeed, due to their much larger agricultural sector.

 

But are net contributors to the EU PAC budget. So no gain as such, a loss instead.

 

But a smaller loss than the UK?

[L00b]

But a smaller loss than the UK?

I don't know. It's your question-contention, so use your own Google-Fu.

 

And don't forget to extent your search to EU non-PAC budgets, to see if the differential (if there is one) is balanced elsewhere: EU receipts from and payments to members are not limited to the PAC, very far from it

[truman]

I don't know. It's your question-contention, so use your own Google-Fu.

 

And don't forget to extent your search to EU non-PAC budgets, to see if the differential (if there is one) is balanced elsewhere: EU receipts from and payments to members are not limited to the PAC, very far from it

 

http://capreform.eu/gainers-and-losers-from-the-cap-budget/

 

Is this the sort of thing that would help?

[L00b]

Is this the sort of thing that would help?

Indeed, and the bottom 2 graphs provide the answer: the UK lost more than France in 2014 (as a GNI %, looks like a 0.00-something% differential between them, with both showing a loss relative to 0.0%), but less than it did in 2008 (where the differential was similarly small, but wherein France showed a profit that year).

 

All the same, it's looking like far less than small potatoes relative to the rest of the EU member states. Quite a surprise actually, considering the difference between the size of the respective agricultural sectors in France and the UK. The logical conclusion is that France must be 'putting in' significantly more into the PAC budget than the UK.

 

Good find.

Edited May 19, 2016 by L00b

[sutty27]

They get twice the PAC payments relative to the UK indeed, due to their much larger agricultural sector.

 

But are net contributors to the EU PAC budget. So no gain as such, a loss instead.

Wrong, the Germans also make a net contribution to the EU PAC budget:

Wiki about CAP.

 

Next incorrect pro-Brexit one-liner, if you please

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11216061

 

Who benefits most from the CAP?

 

Overall, farmers in the 15 older EU member states benefit much more from the CAP than the newer members.

 

Nationally France benefits most, with about 17% of CAP payments, followed by Spain (13%), then Germany (12%), Italy (10.6%) and the UK (7%).