EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[L00b]

And I repeat there is no such term as the "1st global market".

Doesn't matter how often your repeat it.

 

The global market is made up of distinct regional and national markets which, once ranked relative to one another and irrespective of the indicia of reference, yield a 1st market on the global scale (a 1st global market) (EU or US or CN), a 2nd global market (US or EU or CN), a 3rd global market (US or US) <etc>

 

What and how I call them is irrelevant: I'm arguing substantive points, you're just trying to be pedantic about terminology in your efforts to dismiss the substantive points.

We are either in a global economy or we are not....India, US, UK & China are big players in the global economy & can conceivably trade with any bloc or country they can agree terms with.

That's never been in dispute.

We have product the rest of the world wants and buy product the rest of the world produces

That's never been in dispute either.

 

What is in dispute, is the current balance between both and the role of the UK's EU membership in that balance, and how the consequences of a Brexit would influence and affect that balance.

I don't think the EU can or will hold this referendum against us.

The EU won't if the vote is Remain, it has gone on record to state that the first order of the day immediately post-referendum will be to formalise Cameron's deal.

 

The EU absolutely can and will 'hold the referendum against the UK' if the vote is Brexit, likewise it has gone on record to state that it will play for keeps all the way in the ensuing negotiations.

 

Unsurprising, since it will be in each EU member state's economic interest to co-opt as much of the existing UK business in the EU as it can, and in the EU's political interest to "make an example" for any other member state thinking of exiting. That last one may backfire and precipitate further exits of course...but just the same as it may work and rigidify the core € zone. I very much doubt we'd see Putin-like realpolitik by the EU and the main EU states, but make no mistake: they will play hardball, and most (France, Germany, Italy, Poland <...>) have popular support to do so.

Edited May 24, 2016 by L00b

[Tomjames]

Roll on 24th June I am fed up of hearing all the hypothetical outcomes if we stay or go. Now Cameron saying holidays could go up about £230 for a family of four also air travel could cost more.

 

They are trying to save their jobs. Cameron and Osborne are lying through their back teeth to keep us in this project at all costs.

[monkey104]

Roll on 24th June I am fed up of hearing all the hypothetical outcomes if we stay or go. Now Cameron saying holidays could go up about £230 for a family of four also air travel could cost more.

 

This is the reason Cameron is doing Brexit's work for them. Making scurrelous, unfounded alarmist statements.

 

Cameron must think so little as to the populations intelligence that he probably thinks these statements are working.

I am now officially out.

[iansheff]

They are trying to save their jobs. Cameron and Osborne are lying through their back teeth to keep us in this project at all costs.

 

The thing is they don't know, both sides are speculating what COULD happen. Yesterday Osborne was saying we could have another recession. They are trying to scare people into voting either yes or no.

[Tomjames]

Me either.

 

Here's what I actually think. At best (for Brexiters) if we leave, absolutely nothing will change for Mondeo Man. At worst, who knows what might happen. I don't believe all the Remain rhetoric but I can understand (though it don't agree with!) their fear mongering.

 

But the out campaign is beyond weak. There is zero vision, other than this notion everything will magically be better, because we can negotiate ourselves back in but at the same time fix all the ills. Ask them how and they don't really know.

 

I don't think the EU can or will hold this referendum against us. It's a simple vote as to whether we want to stay in a club. Compared to the frankly terrifying rise of the far right in mainland Europe, little old Blighty having a referendum is peanuts. Who knows what might become of the EU if they start to get power. Will we see other nations have their own referendums on the EU?

 

I admit there will possibly be economic uncertainty post-brexit. The forecast gets rosier thereafter IMHO as we embrace sovereignty and begin looking outwards with trade deals etc.

 

• The EU don't want us to leave as it loses it's cash cow and probably signals the end of the EU...it encourages other nations to leave the project. They will still do Business with us however as a major trading partner.
   
  
• The neo liberal politicians don't want us to leave as they have a vested interested in us staying.
   
  
• Banks don't want us to leave because they have guaranteed access to the single market and benefit on EU bail outs.
   
  
• Many Big Business doesnt want us to leave as it will lose the ability to lobby one entity and restrict current unfettered access to a huge group of low paid workers.
  

 

is all this good for the common man though? the man who runs the corner shop down the road? the mondeo man? the blue collar worker? stuck with wages driven down, pressures on housing, schooling and the NHS.

 

That's the decision.

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by Tomjames
.....

[Shef1985]

This is the reason Cameron is doing Brexit's work for them. Making scurrelous, unfounded alarmist statements.

 

Cameron must think so little as to the populations intelligence that he probably thinks these statements are working.

I am now officially out.

 

The problem is, Out keeps telling us to just ignore Cameron because everything will be fine if we vote out. They must think so little of our intelligence that none of us will ask how exactly? What is the plan? Oh, it's these boutique WE AREN'T NORWAY deals...fills me with such confidence(!)

 

---------- Post added 24-05-2016 at 13:43 ----------

 

I admit there will possibly be economic uncertainty post-brexit. The forecast gets rosier thereafter IMHO as we embrace sovereignty and begin looking outwards with trade deals etc.

 

• The EU don't want us to leave as it loses it's cash cow and probably signals the end of the EU...it encourages other nations to leave the project. They will still do Business with us however as a major trading partner.
   
  
• The neo liberal politicians don't want us to leave as they have a vested interested in us staying.
   
  
• Banks don't want us to leave because they have guaranteed access to the single market and benefit on EU bail outs.
   
  
• Many Big Business doesnt want us to leave as it will lose the ability to lobby one entity and restrict current unfettered access to a huge group of low paid workers.
  

 

is all this good for the common man though? the man who runs the corner shop down the road? the mondeo man? the blue collar worker? stuck with wages driven down, pressures on housing, schooling and the NHS.

 

That's the decision.

 

 

The EU is not responsible for successive governments failure to get a grip on the housing crisis. Nor the NHS.

[Tomjames]

The thing is they don't know, both sides are speculating what COULD happen. Yesterday Osborne was saying we could have another recession. They are trying to scare people into voting either yes or no.

 

Look we all know politicians are self interested liars. I just hope the public vote for the right reasons and not because of fear mongering.

 

---------- Post added 24-05-2016 at 13:45 ----------

 

 

The EU is not responsible for successive governments failure to get a grip on the housing crisis. Nor the NHS.

 

Net migration at 800k per year? a 150k per year deficit in housing? under funded NHS (8 billion per year)

We can ease that pressure by leaving and controlling our borders.

 

---------- Post added 24-05-2016 at 13:48 ----------

 

Labour should of sorted this too while the sun was shining, they had 13 years

Edited May 24, 2016 by Tomjames
.....

[Shef1985]

The forecast gets rosier thereafter IMHO as we embrace sovereignty and begin looking outwards with trade deals etc.

 

 

Remain forecasts disaster, Out forecasts a bright future.

 

They are too doom-laden from Remain, which, as I say, I can understand, and far too vague from Out, which is unforgivable if they really, really truly believe we are better off out.

 

---------- Post added 24-05-2016 at 13:54 ----------

 

Look we all know politicians are self interested liars. I just hope the public vote for the right reasons and not because of fear mongering.

 

---------- Post added 24-05-2016 at 13:45 ----------

 

 

Net migration at 800k per year? a 150k per year deficit in housing? under funded NHS (8 billion per year)

We can ease that pressure by leaving and controlling our borders.

 

---------- Post added 24-05-2016 at 13:48 ----------

 

Labour should of sorted this too while the sun was shining, they had 13 years

 

Net migration 800k per year yes. But what about low unemployment in the UK? The government(s) should have built houses for those workers. Doesn't it bother you that when commentators say, you can't trade with the EU without free movement, look at Norway, all Out can say is 'we aren't Norway!' I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing about Norway but until Out actually has a proper answer, Remain will keep using the argument.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Shef1985

[Tomjames]

 

Net migration 800k per year yes. But what about low unemployment in the UK? The government should have built houses for those workers.

 

is pay going up in relation to rising costs? low unemployment figures don't always tell the whole story.

 

yes, agreed the gov should of built more housing...but have they? and will they in the future? can they cope with 1 million - 2 million more people every year?

 

I have serious doubts.

[L00b]

under funded NHS (8 billion per year)

Wish that one was debated objectively as well, besides the UK's European membership.

 

Or do people think the government -whichever government- should just keep throwing ever more money at it every year, before (if ever) enough people start asking "hang on a sec, this is all taxpayers' money, is it all being spent wisely and managed efficiently and thriftly?" ?

can they cope with 1 million - 2 million more people every year?

Fearmongering, much? Edited May 24, 2016 by L00b