EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[Shef1985]

is pay going up in relation to rising costs? low unemployment figures don't always tell the whole story.

 

yes, agreed the gov should of built more housing...but have they? and will they in the future? can they cope with 1 million - 2 million more people every year?

 

I have serious doubts.

 

No, obviously not. But the fact remains a lot of commentators are saying we cannot trade with the EU without free movement of people and Out has no response.

 

Where have you got 2 million from??

 

You say you want people to vote for the right reasons. The absolute major factor for a lot of people is immigration. It's the elephant in the room, and the other room, and on the porch. My concern for Brexiters is that if we vote out and then negotiate the best possible trade deals we can for the UK it will have to include free movement of people. That's why I say, at best, for Mondeo Man, Brexit will make no difference.

 

You have your Brexit, but it makes no difference to you and the country suffers.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Shef1985

[tinfoilhat]

This is the reason Cameron is doing Brexit's work for them. Making scurrelous, unfounded alarmist statements.

 

Cameron must think so little as to the populations intelligence that he probably thinks these statements are working.

I am now officially out.

 

In fairness so are the out camp. IDS claimed there wouldn't be recession if we left. Is he on crack? Whether we'd battle through afterwards I'm not sure but there will be pain initially.

[alchresearch]

They are trying to save their jobs. Cameron and Osborne are lying through their back teeth to keep us in this project at all costs.

 

As is Boris and the Leave campaign.

[Shef1985]

Slightly off topic, and might have been mentioned a hundred years ago on page 3 or something, but didn't Cameron state if his demands weren't met regarding EU reform we would seriously consider leaving the EU? He got his demands but we still have the vote. Now he predicts End Times if we leave. Was this the worst ever example of political bluffing? How did he pull it off??

 

If the consequences of Brexit are WW3 Recession Mass Unemployment dire there would be no referendum because he wouldn't take that risk. After all, the best argument against democracy is to speak to average voter.

 

Anyway, I find the Remain rhetoric rather comical. But at least its got some fire. Brexit has Boris....

[L00b]

Slightly off topic, and might have been mentioned a hundred years ago on page 3 or something, but didn't Cameron state if his demands weren't met regarding EU reform we would seriously consider leaving the EU? He got his demands but we still have the vote.

There's an EU Referendum Act 2015 that happened (Dec'15) in-between Cameron's policy statement (Nov'15) and his renegotiation outcome (Feb'16).

 

Which makes it rather impractical for Cameron to "call off" the referendum after getting (most of) his demands.

[you wouldn't want the British government to ride roughshod over an Act of Parliament, now, would you? ]

 

The referendum was always going happen, but Cameron didn't know if he was going to get enough out of the EU. Turns out he did, so...

Now he predicts End Times if we leave. Was this the worst ever example of political bluffing? How did he pull it off??

...now he's fighting against the leave case, rather than for the leave case.

 

Simples

Edited May 24, 2016 by L00b

[Tomjames]

Slightly off topic, and might have been mentioned a hundred years ago on page 3 or something, but didn't Cameron state if his demands weren't met regarding EU reform we would seriously consider leaving the EU? He got his demands but we still have the vote. Now he predicts End Times if we leave. Was this the worst ever example of political bluffing? How did he pull it off??

 

If the consequences of Brexit are WW3 Recession Mass Unemployment dire there would be no referendum because he wouldn't take that risk. After all, the best argument against democracy is to speak to average voter.

 

Anyway, I find the Remain rhetoric rather comical. But at least its got some fire. Brexit has Boris....

 

Cameron compromised the negotiations. It seemed like a hollow victory.

 

---------- Post added 24-05-2016 at 15:01 ----------

 

As is Boris and the Leave campaign.

 

Boris is unemployed

[Shef1985]

There's an EU Referendum Act 2015 that happened in-between Cameron's policy statement (pre-December'15) and his renegotiation outcome (late Feb'16).

 

Which makes it rather impractical for Cameron to call off the referendum after getting (most of) his demands...you wouldn't want the British government to ride roughshod over an Act of Parliament, now, would you?

It's simply politicking now that he'd got no choice but to give the referendum.

 

Convoluted? You betcha. Such is political life.

 

Interesting! Do you think the EU cowed to his demands because they are terrified of Brexit? But they knew we had a referendum coming up, did they know there was no chance in hell Cameron would petition for us to leave? So why give in to his demands? If they have at all of course? Is it cleverer than that; are the concessions so trivial but together the EU and Cameron know they are enough to swing the Remain vote?

 

Cameron knows there's the referendum. He hasn't decided which way to vote, but say's it depends on the outcome of the negotiation. If they don't give him what he wants he will campaign for us to leave. If he failed he would have had to come back to the UK and say, 'ooops, they didn't buy it. They called my bluff. Please god still vote to remain.'

 

Might that have triggered a vote of no confidence? Or would he have actually campaigned for us to leave??

 

Genuinely baffled by all that.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Shef1985

[L00b]

Interesting! Do you think the EU cowed to his demands because they are terrified of Brexit? But they knew we had a referendum coming up, did they know there was no chance in hell Cameron would petition for us to leave? So why give in to his demands? If they have at all of course? Is it cleverer than that; are the concessions so trivial but together the EU and Cameron know they are enough to swing the Remain vote?

 

Cameron knows there's the referendum. He hasn't decided which way to vote, but say's it depends on the outcome of the negotiation. If they don't give him what he wants he will campaign for us to leave. If he failed he would have had to come back to the UK and say, 'ooops, they didn't buy it. They called my bluff. Please god still vote to remain.'

 

Might that have triggered a vote of no confidence? Or would he have actually campaigned for us to leave??

 

Genuinely baffled by all that.

Facetiously, I'd suggest that you dust off and polish your crystal ball to get answers to all these questions

 

Love him or loathe him (or anywhere in-between for that matter), Cameron's a consummate politician and has amply proven himself as such time and again since before 2010, so I'm quietly confident that there was plenty of method to the apparent madness, and still is

 

As to what I think happened between Cameron and Juncker behind closed doors...I have zero doubt both Cameron and the EU were highly attuned (and still are) to the political risks of a Brexit, highly aware of the Conservative's decades-old Eurosceptic rift and the dynamics of domestic UK politics, and highly aware of the EU's position of economical strength relative to the UK in the case of a Brexit. So, as with any negotiation since the year dot, a bit of blanket-pulling and blanket-giving was done by both sides, until a mutually-acceptable intermediate position was achieved.

 

I wouldn't call that cynicism...more like pragmatism

Edited May 24, 2016 by L00b

[LeMaquis]

Look we all know politicians are self interested liars. I just hope the public vote for the right reasons and not because of fear mongering.

 

Net migration at 800k per year? a 150k per year deficit in housing? under funded NHS (8 billion per year)

We can ease that pressure by leaving and controlling our borders.

 

Oh the irony.

[tzijlstra]

The main reason that has swung me is because in April Tata announced that it is to close UK steel plants because producing steel in the UK is unprofitable. This is partly because of our high energy costs which is 50% higher than China partly because of EU green tax.

 

Also, The only profitable steel was "grain oriented electrical steel". The Chinese GOVERNMENT then announced that this type of steel was causing "substantial damage" and "material injury" to China's industry. So what did they do? They added a 46% levy on this type of high tech steel produced by Tata in Wales. Making "grain oriented electrical steel" instantly unprofitable and essentially killing the last remaining competition in the market.

 

Fair play to China for looking after its own interests and breaking every law in international trading. But they dont care.

 

What does the British government do? Nothing. Their hands are tied by the EU on export levy's and in 2015 we had to ask permission from Brussels to exempt our steel industry from Green taxes. The decision is still strangled by EU red tape so in the mean time our industry is on the brink of collapse.

 

We need to have the power to make decisions that benefits us and not Europe as a whole. So i think i want out.

 

Do you know who the business secretary is? E-mail him to ask why he blocked an EU commission initiative through the EU-council that was designed to cut cheap Chinese imported steel? He will tellyou that it might make shoes more expensive. Now of course he is all song and dance about working with the EU to tackle the problem... In the meantime Tata is actually investing in the Dutch Corus plant, you know, in the EU. So stop blaming the EU for steel, stop blaming the EU for costing so much (by perpetuating the lie the EU costs 350 million a week, debunked time and time again) and start using that thing between your ears.

 

People in this country are sleepwalking into a trap set by politicians on both sides lying, consistently, for decades, about the EU, each time blaming unpopular policy on 'Brussels' whilst pushing their own hardnosed capitalist rules through in all of Europe.

 

Fishing industry too...of course all these industries only effect working class towns. Hipster urban centres and student cities are unaffected.

 

Another example of an industry murdered by UK government interference in the EU, the common fisheries policy was the brainchild of suits in Whitehall, which is why the UK ended up with much higher shares than any other country, the fishing industry is practically dead everywhere in Europe, except for NorthEast Scotland, odd that? Not really, what is odd is the gall to blame the EU for it.