EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[L00b]

Any concerns about loss of cultural distinctiveness from the "melting pot" model?

That's long been an argument of the anti's, which still has no real basis after 30+ years of EU building.

 

If anything, national Gvts have only been too happy to delegate the preservation and funding of cultural localised idiosyncrasies to the EU, as politically and financially expedient. Some useful reading on the topic.

 

Local identity preservation initiatives in Brittany and Corsica in France, Catalonia in Spain? All EU-funded, directly (by the EU) or indirectly (by the national Gvt repurposing EU money). I've not mentioned Wales or Scotland, but feel free to take a look: same-o.

 

By way of thanks, they're all pushing for independence more than ever

[unbeliever]

That's long been an argument of the anti's, which still has no real basis after 30+ years of EU building.

 

If anything, national Gvts have only been too happy to delegate the preservation and funding of cultural localised idiosyncrasies to the EU, as politically and financially expedient. Some useful reading on the topic.

 

Local identity preservation initiatives in Brittany and Corsica in France, Catalonia in Spain? All EU-funded, directly (by the EU) or indirectly (by the national Gvt repurposing EU money). I've not mentioned Wales or Scotland, but feel free to take a look: same-o.

 

By way of thanks, they're all pushing for independence more than ever

 

Then they should have independence. Different peoples have different ideas of how government should be. Nobody's right. A lot of alternatives are legitimate.

 

So the EU regions movement has destabilised traditional nations. I wonder why they did that.

[L00b]

So the EU regions movement has destabilised traditional nations.

I thought the EU was a "melting pot" model promoting or accelerating the "loss of cultural distinctiveness"?

 

So, unbeliever, which is it?

[unbeliever]

Hand on a minute, I thought the EU was a "melting pot" model promoting or accelerating the "loss of cultural distinctiveness"?

 

So...which is it?

 

A federal model creates a cultural melting pot.

 

Cynically promoting regional division within stable nations is trouble-making.

The UK had a stable system in place where the Scottish distinctive culture was preserved and had been for 400 years. We weren't operating a melting pot. What were the EU protecting them from?

 

Still if the Scottish want to go their own way, I'm not stopping them. I'll miss them but it's their decision.

 

The devil is in the detail.

[L00b]

A federal model creates a cultural melting pot.

 

Cynically promoting regional division within stable nations is trouble-making.

Ah, so your argument is that the EU is promoting or accelerating the loss of cultural distinctiveness by promoting and funding that very cultural distinctiveness?

[unbeliever]

Ah, so your argument is that the EU is promoting or accelerating the loss of cultural distinctiveness by promoting and funding that very cultural distinctiveness?

 

They're interfering. And making a mess of things.

That's typical in my experience.

 

They're applying a one size fits all regionalisation policy which is not appropriate for every region (if any).

[tzijlstra]

Cool. Somebody's has their John Lennon playing this morning.

 

There is constant tension in the US between states' rights and federal control just as in the EU.

The problem with this idea is the assumption that the best way of doing something can be determined analytically. What tends to work best in practise is for different people to try different things and the best ideas get copied.

Any concerns about loss of cultural distinctiveness from the "melting pot" model?

 

Also, the US went through a massive civil war to solidify their system. Perhaps not the best model to copy?

Interesting though if that's the model we're following. European integration will therefore presumably reach a point, as the US did, where an attempt to secede from the union will be met with force.

 

What is cultural distinctiveness and are you arguing that Dutch culture is similar to Belgian culture despite having been in the Benelux union for over 50 years? Because I assure you that isn't a great argument.

 

Your other argument, about the American civil war, sounds even more desperate as a counter. I am fairly sure we have moved on compared to 150 years ago.

 

Finally, never listened to John Lennon, I am more of an Angerfist person. Although this morning it has mainly been Radio 3 FM, a Dutch pop-station that you can follow through the internet should you want to. It keeps me sane, hearing Dutch every now and then, and technology helps me to do just that - it appears the world IS indeed moving on!

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 13:37 ----------

 

They're interfering. And making a mess of things.

That's typical in my experience.

 

They're applying a one size fits all regionalisation policy which is not appropriate for every region (if any).

 

This is very much off the mark as well. The EU is founded on the principal of cultural diversity. Don't believe me? See how much Welsh has come on since the EU, same for Gaelic, Frisian, Catalunyan, Basque, Belgian German and so on, and so on.

[unbeliever]

What is cultural distinctiveness and are you arguing that Dutch culture is similar to Belgian culture despite having been in the Benelux union for over 50 years? Because I assure you that isn't a great argument.

 

Your other argument, about the American civil war, sounds even more desperate as a counter. I am fairly sure we have moved on compared to 150 years ago.

 

Finally, never listened to John Lennon, I am more of an Angerfist person. Although this morning it has mainly been Radio 3 FM, a Dutch pop-station that you can follow through the internet should you want to. It keeps me sane, hearing Dutch every now and then, and technology helps me to do just that - it appears the world IS indeed moving on!

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 13:37 ----------

 

 

This is very much off the mark as well. The EU is founded on the principal of cultural diversity. Don't believe me? See how much Welsh has come on since the EU, same for Gaelic, Frisian, Catalunyan, Basque, Belgian German and so on, and so on.

 

Perhaps you could offer an example of a full federal system without the melting pot? One without a de-facto national language would be a good start. The US doesn't have a de-jure national language (for now), but there's little doubt as to the reality of the situation.

 

P.S. If the EU is to have a national language, I'd like to place my vote now for Latin.

Edited June 15, 2015 by unbeliever

[tzijlstra]

Perhaps you could offer an example of a full federal system without the melting pot? One without a de-facto national language would be a good start. The US doesn't have a de-jure national language (for now), but there's little doubt as to the reality of the situation.

 

The EU?

 

Also, the notion of a national culture as a static and protected institute is so old fashioned it is laughable.

 

Regarding the PS: The EU is never going to have a national language, it doesn't need it.

[unbeliever]

The EU?

 

Also, the notion of a national culture as a static and protected institute is so old fashioned it is laughable.

 

You've spent the last 3 days telling me that the EU is not a full federal system like the US and isn't going to be.

 

 

Hang on a minute. You never responded to my question as to why the EU felt it necessary to dictate to the nations that they had to meet their CO2 reduction targets using renewables rather than any of the more sensible alternatives.

Edited June 15, 2015 by unbeliever