sutty27 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 It's perfectly obvious that free trade has prevented wars. You only have to read a little history. It is, I will admit, hard to nail down exactly how things would have come out without the push for free trade. I'm not somebody who wholeheartedly approves of brain-draining poor countries. I can see wisdom the moral objections you raise. Still the over-all effect of free trade is, I am quite convinced, very positive. Wars have started between countries that traded with each other. So at least tell us which two countries would have gone to war of not for free trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) Wars have started between countries that traded with each other. So at least tell us which two countries would have gone to war of not for free trade. Europe was in a state of almost perpetual war for thousands of years until we made free trade agreements across the continent. How have you got me arguing in support of the EU. Free trade across Europe is vital to peace within Europe. Free trade with the wider world is vital to similarly bringing an end to war elsewhere. I shall vote for Brexit in part because I expect it to serve the goal of world-wide free trade. I judge that trading blocs run in opposition to this goal whilst claiming to serve it. It's an idea passed its time. Edited May 25, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revel Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I'd vote to stay in if I could see the EU changing, but I can't. I also doubt the referendum has done the UK's relationship with other members any good. I can see us being targeted/penalised. Legally, they also know we are trapped in the EU if we stay in. We won't get a second chance to leave. If we stay or go, I still reckon it'll collapse within a few decades (or even quicker if we leave - France and Germany will not be able to afford to carry the EU by themselves). Win-win! OUTOUTOUT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Europe was in a state of almost perpetual war for thousands of years until we made free trade agreements across the continent. The world as been in state of perpetual war despite countries trading with each other for millennia. The most likely reason Europeans haven't been at war with each since the end of WW2 is the memory and history of that last 2 wars, we know the cost of war is too high. Having said that there have still been plenty of wars involving European countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The world as been in state of perpetual war despite countries trading with each other for millennia. The most likely reason Europeans haven't been at war with each since the end of WW2 is the memory and history of that last 2 wars, we know the cost of war is too high. Having said that there have still been plenty of wars involving European countries. Free trade. Do you understand, we're talking about free trade. Not trade in general, but free trade. Oh and the memory of the absolute slaughter of WWI did nothing to prevent WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I'd vote to stay in if I could see the EU changing, but I can't. I also doubt the referendum has done the UK's relationship with other members any good. I can see us being targeted/penalised. Legally, they also know we are trapped in the EU if we stay in. We won't get a second chance to leave. If we stay or go, I still reckon it'll collapse within a few decades (or even quicker if we leave - France and Germany will not be able to afford to carry the EU by themselves). Win-win! OUTOUTOUT. You can't see it changing but you can see it collapsing? That would be rather a large change! We won't be penalised for having a referendum and voting to stay, Much like Austria will not be penalised for almost electing the Far Right. We won't even be 'penalised' for voting out. However, we will lose out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Free trade. Do you understand, we're talking about free trade. Not trade in general, but free trade. Oh and the memory of the absolute slaughter of WWI did nothing to prevent WWII. Yes it's what humans have been doing for millennia, trading freely with each other. Trade between Germany and the outside world also didn't prevent it, occasionally a nutter rises to power and starts a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 ...memory of the absolute slaughter of WWI did nothing to prevent WWII. The treatment of Germany after WWI was part of the cause! Before all this talk of war gets silly and someone drops the H word can we move on? No one thinks we will have a war any time soon if we Brexit. I do not believe everything Remain tells me. A lot of other Remainers here admit the same. The much more interesting topic is why so many Outers believer everything they're told! The turnout in the vote is expected to be low. That's a tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The much more interesting topic is why so many Outers believer everything they're told! And there was me thinking its the Ins believing everything they are told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The treatment of Germany after WWI was part of the cause! That's exactly my point. They were not permitted to freely trade with the rest of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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