Shef1985 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) Yes it's what humans have been doing for millennia, trading freely with each other. Trade between Germany and the outside world also didn't prevent it, occasionally a nutter rises to power and starts a war. But final point - with a nutter in power no amount of free trade will prevent a war if he wants one. However, when countries don't have nutters in charge..... Nutters rise to power when election turn outs are low. Someone once told me. I don't write that as absolute fact! It's completely unrelated but UKIP won the 2014 European elections with a turnout of 35.6%....... Edited May 25, 2016 by Shef1985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Yes it's what humans have been doing for millennia, trading freely with each other. Trade between Germany and the outside world also didn't prevent it, occasionally a nutter rises to power and starts a war. Free trade has a specific meaning. Even going back millennia, trade gradually replaced war as we developed. We want that process to continue until war is eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) And there was me thinking its the Ins believing everything they are told. Sorry sutty27, that is my perception on this forum and this forum alone. Remain are open to discussion, Outers send links to websites and videos that are demonstrably full of untruths, rhetoric, general Nationalistic nonsense and a complete lack of vision which they flatly refuse to accept criticism of. Edited May 25, 2016 by Shef1985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 But final point - with a nutter in power no amount of free trade will prevent a war if he wants one. However, when countries don't have nutters in charge..... Nutters rise to power when election turn outs are low. Someone once told me. I don't write that as absolute fact! No argument from me on that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) I'd vote to stay in if I could see the EU changing, but I can't. I also doubt the referendum has done the UK's relationship with other members any good. I can see us being targeted/penalised. Legally, they also know we are trapped in the EU if we stay in. We won't get a second chance to leave. I just don't get this particular bit of fearmongering by Brexiters: why would the UK "not get a second chance to leave" after this referendum, if the Remain vote wins? Put aside the practical aspect and political dimension of the thing, there is no legal basis why the UK could not have a referendum to stay in the EU or leave it every other day, if it came to it: the UK is entirely sovereign about the opportunity of passing a next EU Referendum Act in 2017, in 2018, <...> and hold the referendum under its respective Act, if the socio-political conditions met the need again, as they did in 2015, The EU cannot say anything about it, no more than it can prevent a referendum in Hungary about accepting or refusing refugee quotas. It can only accommodate the outcome, by negotiating with the government empowered to negotiate the matter by direct popular mandate. I do not believe everything Remain tells me. A lot of other Remainers here admit the same. The much more interesting topic is why so many Outers believer everything they're told!Outers only believe what massages and reinforces their confirmation bias. Any bit of documented factual information that runs counter to that, is studiously ignored or summarily dismissed as fearmongering. Unsurprisingly, and regrettably, it's not conducive of debate, so time and again I'm left to debunk the myths and untruths and ask the Outers "beside a feel good feeling and maybe a hangover on June 25, what's the actual plan if Brexit"? Edited May 25, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Free trade has a specific meaning. Even going back millennia, trade gradually replaced war as we developed. We want that process to continue until war is eliminated. But trade hasn't replace war and never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 But final point - with a nutter in power no amount of free trade will prevent a war if he wants one. However, when countries don't have nutters in charge..... Nutters rise to power when election turn outs are low. Someone once told me. I don't write that as absolute fact! Turnout for the German federal election, November 1932 was 80.6%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Sorry sutty27, that is my perception on this forum and this forum alone. Remain are open to discussion, Outers send links to websites and videos that are demonstrably full of untruths. My perception is different, Outers are open to discussion whilst Ins resort to scaremongering, claims that are demonstrably full of untruths and the occasional bit of name calling thrown in for good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 But trade hasn't replace war and never will. That's an opinion which you're entitled to, but which I disagree with. ---------- Post added 25-05-2016 at 14:55 ---------- My perception is different, Outers are open to discussion whilst Ins resort to scaremongering, claims that are demonstrably full of untruths and the occasional bit of name calling thrown in for good luck. On this we generally agree, but our side, the Brexiters are too often full of bovine excrement themselves. For a start going around saying that we're paying £360 million per week, which is very nearly a complete lie as it ignores the rebate. It would be legitimate not to deduct EU directed spending in the UK as our parliament doesn't control it, but you surely have to deduct the rebate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The fact remains that Brexit is based on conjecture and what ifs. Nobody from the Brexit camp can say with any conviction what will happen should they succeed. While the Remain camp can simply ask what's wrong now and how will it improve, without conjecture and what if, after Brexit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts