sutty27 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The fact remains that Brexit is based on conjecture and what ifs. Nobody from the Brexit camp can say with any conviction what will happen should they succeed. While the Remain camp can simply ask what's wrong now and how will it improve, without conjecture and what if, after Brexit? We know what's wrong with the EU now and we know it can't be changed, hence a vote to leave is the sensible option if you dislike the EU in its current form. Its sad that so many will vote on the naive assumption that the EU will be reformed for the better at some point in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The thing which disturbs be is that the In campaign is an unholy alliance between groups which think that further integration is easily avoided and shouldn't be worried about, and groups which think that further integration will be very hard to avoid and is a good thing. So will the EU compel us to become part of their federation, or will it be up to us to choose? Depends on who you ask. The Out campaign might not agree on what UK government policy on various things, including trade with the EU, should be post-Brexit; but they are at least united in who will be making UK law on such matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 It's undecided. It will depend on the votes of the UK people post-Brexit. That's kind of how democracy is supposed to be. Do you really want to sacrifice democracy for certainty. If on the other hand you think the EU is democratic, then surely the same uncertainty exists there as well. If you're looking for certainty, I think you're in the wrong universe. I can see where you are coming from, but I don't share your mindset about how undemocratic the EU is, so your wasting your time on that with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 There is a degree of natural uncertainty and then there is creating uncertainty. There is a significant difference and it is a key factor for many. I find uncertainty reassuring to an extent. It means that we have choices. I am aware that the economy benefits from certainty, so there's a balance to be struck there. Perhaps we just disagree about where that balance is. ---------- Post added 25-05-2016 at 15:44 ---------- I can see where you are coming from, but I don't share your mindset about how undemocratic the EU is, so your wasting your time on that with me. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The tide is shifting to immigration now in the Out campaign. We will see them do the scaremongering now I think. What can't you admit Out has no actual concrete plan for a post Brexit Britain? Forget absolutely everything Remain is going on about, pretend they aren't even there, listen to what Out tells you about the future. It won't take long. They don't have power so can't have a plan, what life is like after Brexit will be down to our elected government. I don't really listen to either side because there is nothing either side can say or do that will change the way I will vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 We know what's wrong with the EU now and we know it can't be changed, hence a vote to leave is the sensible option if you dislike the EU in its current form. Its sad that so many will vote on the naive assumption that the EU will be reformed for the better at some point in the future. Weird, in my book the EU has seen an enormous amount of change over the past fifty-plus years, far more than the UK with its antiquated form of reactionary politics. So why can't the EU be changed in your opinion? Or did you mean to say: our government doesn't always get what it wants without negotiation and that isn't fair boohoohoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 It's undecided. It will depend on the votes of the UK people post-Brexit. That's kind of how democracy is supposed to be. Do you really want to sacrifice democracy for certainty. If on the other hand you think the EU is democratic, then surely the same uncertainty exists there as well. If you're looking for certainty, I think you're in the wrong universe. I get the feeling some would vote for Kim Jong-un rather the risk uncertainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon1 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 our government doesn't always get what it wants without negotiation and that isn't fair boohoohoo! Sounds like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Have you not heard of Michael Gove's plan for us to be more like the economic powerhouse that is Albania? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3555770/Dear-Mr-Gove-want-like-Albania-ASS-deciding-Brexit-Two-brilliant-voices-Ins-Outs.html Haha no....wait, doesn't Albania want to join the EU though??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I find uncertainty reassuring to an extent. It means that we have choices. I am aware that the economy benefits from certainty, so there's a balance to be struck there. Perhaps we just disagree about where that balance is. ---------- Post added 25-05-2016 at 15:44 ---------- Fair enough. Uncertainty is great, it creates opportunities, but uncertainty about your life prospects bnecause you decide to light a cigarette in a room that smells of gas is not quite the chance you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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