El Cid Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 It has forced governments to take the environment serious. Most European countries have had rising CO2 emissions from 1990 to 2010 And that is the problem, they make lots of rules, which is great, but they achieve nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 TZI, Thank you for your grown up reply. Having read this thread I was dubious as to getting involved because of the often quite nasty rebuttals, I can remember such as the BSE thing a french minister on the news stating categorically that they would ignore the EU ruling as they deemed British beef dangerous. You see we differ in that I believe the fact I am voting out will be to the benefit of any grandchildren that I may have in the future and not to their detriment. We all have beliefs, hopes, morals that may be in conflict with anothers but we have to live by them. I am living by mine and voting out. ---------- Post added 25-05-2016 at 21:01 ---------- Woahthere, doubt it will change your mind. Its democracy. The fact that I cannot vote out the eurocrats, who are appointed and not elected. The fact that within the EU there are too many groups that vote en mass such as the eastern states for their own vested interests as we have just seen in the glorious renegotiation. You will argue as have many on this thread that the EU is democratic, my personal opinion is that it is not. I may be wrong but that is how I see it and I am sorry if you disagree but I will not try to change your view as you have your opinion and I have mine The BSE crisis is an interesting point and I am pleased you use that as an example. I lived in an area where farmers disposed of their livestock, many of my friends were supposed to take over the dairy farms in Fryslan (Frisian cows) but couldn't because BSE put their family businesses over the always close edge. It wasn't the case that France blocked British beef, it blocked ALL beef imports, it cost them as well, the EU fined them significantly for breaching single market rules if memory serves me well. What was significantly different between the UK and the Netherlands was that inthe UK the government elected for the rather barbaric and draconian measure of forcing farmers to burn their own life's work in their own fields, that was a UK decision, but the government handily used the French positionto claim the EU was somehow at fault. If I was athome I'd find the documentation, but internet here in Lewis is patchy and my iPad is moody. ---------- Post added 25-05-2016 at 21:17 ---------- Most European countries have had rising CO2 emissions from 1990 to 2010 And that is the problem, they make lots of rules, which is great, but they achieve nothing. Stats,recent data? The Don has otters in it, in Sheffield. I'd call that an achievement and it is the result of an EU directive on water quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey104 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I used Cern because it is something people recognise, but you are right. The issue is that when I refer to FP7 projects most people glaze over and stare in the wilderness, you are aware of it though and you know it is a very significant fund for large scale research, I can mention all sorts of projects that won't mean a lot to folks but have real life practical impact. That's all fine and well but slightly off topic but despite all the money pumped in to the CERN project and proving that Higgs Bosun does exist what other use has it been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penistone999 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 No,the EU does not tell UK business to not train UK nationals but directly employ immigrants instead. The EU does not tell UK business to employ immigrants over and above UK unemployed. The needs and desires of UK business are the drivers of immigration of many immigrant workers,therefore,it is UK business that is undermining UK infrastructure by their policies regarding EU legislation. The EU does insist we allow people to live here which puts pressure on the NHS and housing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Stats,recent data? The Don has otters in it, in Sheffield. I'd call that an achievement and it is the result of an EU directive on water quality. Yes there are some good things. Air quality, we seem to be breaking EU law on air quality 24/7; how have we lasted so long without massive fines? I agree that we should work together with other EU countries, but would we have improved some things without the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The BSE crisis is an interesting point and I am pleased you use that as an example. I lived in an area where farmers disposed of their livestock, many of my friends were supposed to take over the dairy farms in Fryslan (Frisian cows) but couldn't because BSE put their family businesses over the always close edge. It wasn't the case that France blocked British beef, it blocked ALL beef imports, it cost them as well, the EU fined them significantly for breaching single market rules if memory serves me well. What was significantly different between the UK and the Netherlands was that inthe UK the government elected for the rather barbaric and draconian measure of forcing farmers to burn their own life's work in their own fields, that was a UK decision, but the government handily used the French positionto claim the EU was somehow at fault. If I was athome I'd find the documentation, but internet here in Lewis is patchy and my iPad is moody. ---------- Post added 25-05-2016 at 21:17 ---------- Stats,recent data? The Don has otters in it, in Sheffield. I'd call that an achievement and it is the result of an EU directive on water quality. No that's down to lost industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) The EU does insist we allow people to live here which puts pressure on the NHS and housing British business invites people over by working hand in hand with agencies advertising jobs abroad.British business employs immigrants over and above UK unemployed,if they didn't do that,then immigrants would have no way to support themselves and wouldn't have the means to live here,whether they wanted too or not.Immigrants do not just jump into jobs,employers employ them,and so give them a foothold in the UK.sort of a way to scratch out an existence on wages which are now widely acknowledged to be below levels needed to secure a decent life for any individual and her dependents. : http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/blog/2013/11/migrants-are-undermining-working-conditions-no-blame-30-years-government-deregulation Something more was added to our knowledge of the way labour markets now operate in the form of a separate report published by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. Forced Labour’s Business Models and Supply Chains sets out the ways in which the UK economy as a whole functions to deliver up a workforce which is at its most extreme ends vulnerable to forced labour – the term given to modern-day slavery. Tackling exploitation Deregulated workplaces and informality in terms of recruitment practices and contracts of employment have created conditions which effectively require businesses to build brutal exploitation into their daily operation if they are to survive in competitive markets. The argument that the supposedly unnatural work ethic of migrants has brought this situation into being need to be ditched once and for all. The evidence which both the JRF and the IER have set out shows the risks which have accumulated in the world of work as a consequence of years of deregulation of labour markets. Even The Economist, the voice of business, has added its view to what follows on when standards drop to rock bottom levels, to the point, as with the minimum wage, that even those regulations that do exist go largely unenforced. A comment piece published this week argues that the failure to uphold rules when they do exist ends up as another form of immigration policy, but one which actively draws workers who are most poorly equipped to fight their corner more deeply into the trap of exploitation. The IER book makes the case in ringingly clear terms: migrant and native workers need to be together in this business of fighting their corner against exploitation. The conditions for the race to the bottom in the jobs market did not come about because migrants started to arrive in the country. Its essential features had already been put in place during the course of the 1980s when the government piled anti-union legislation on the statute book and gave the green light to employers to push back against decent wages and working conditions. The way out of this predicament is solidarity between all groups of workers and a renewal of the regulation of employment conditions and the capacity of trade unions and other workforce protection agencies to ensure that standards are maintained. So, we know what the problem is: time to act together to provide the solutio Edited May 25, 2016 by chalga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Greener Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Out http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/24/eu-vows-use-new-powers-block-elected-far-right-populists-power/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ez8004 Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 apparently Hadron collider paid for by members of CERN which appear to all be EU members.According to Forbes cost of discovering Higgs Bosun particle $13.25 billion, what a ridiculous amount of money to discover a particle that is of what use to mankind?. ---------- Post added 25-05-2016 at 20:46 ---------- M, I may just be thick or you sound smarter than me but what is this Higgs Bosun going to do for mankind. Will it help with space travel, just curious as to what good it is, And thanks for clearing up that CERN existed prior to the EU and not because of the EU. It is generally accepted that the scientists make the breakthrough discoveries and the engineers then apply it or scale it to the benefit of mankind. A decent example is Alexander Fleming's discovery of antibiotics. Flory and Chain tried to mass produce but couldn't and it wasn't until the chemical engineer Margaret Rousseau created the process to scale the production that benefited civilization as we know it and the rest is history. So, the discovery of the Higg's Boson is the first step of many. The application of this discovery will come in time. It is narrow minded to think otherwise. Talking about international collaboration, one of huge significance is the ITER project. The EU as a collective entity has very significant influence which is why the host country is France and not Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 No that's down to lost industry. Partly, but also down to a lot less raw sewage going in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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