EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[Tomjames]

Well we can see how desperate they are to keep us in,

"So THAT'S why they don't want us to leave: Brexit set to send German exporters bust"

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/674546/Brexit-set-to-send-German-exporters-bust

 

Use pen in the ballot box. It's a fixed vote for sure.

[sutty27]

 

The 'stay' campaign despite all of Cameron's recent nonsense is making the most solid case.

 

The leave campaign is a turgid mess. Trading on blatant lies is never going to convince me to come off the fence.

 

It's one thing a campaigner making the odd slip-up or to tell a white lie in an interview, but to drive around the whole country in a big red (Polish-built) bus for weeks on end with a blatant lie plastered on the side of it is quite something else.

 

It doesn't matter how much you try the lies told by Cameron are far worse than any said by the Brexit camp, and Cameron started it, if he is prepared to lie to win you can't expect the other side to be any different.

[I1L2T3]

It doesn't matter how much you try the lies told by Cameron are far worse than any said by the Brexit camp, and Cameron started it, if he is prepared to lie to win you can't expect the other side to be any different.

 

I agree that Cameron's performance has been bad, and the lies he's told are nothing less than I'd expect from him. After all his cabinets have regularly lied and cheated all the way since 2010.

 

I don't care who started it but the Brexit campaign have got themselves in a hole here. There's a big red sitting duck of a target driving all over the country, day after day.

[monkey104]

I agree that Cameron's performance has been bad, and the lies he's told are nothing less than I'd expect from him. After all his cabinets have regularly lied and cheated all the way since 2010.

 

I don't care who started it but the Brexit campaign have got themselves in a hole here. There's a big red sitting duck of a target driving all over the country, day after day.

 

Which is exactly why Cameron is doing Brexits work for them. The constant unsubstantiated tosh pushed out by the government, treating voters as if they are stupid has changed my vote from in to out!

If the government are so thick to think we cannot see through their lies and propaganda then we deserve to be out.

[I1L2T3]

Which is exactly why Cameron is doing Brexits work for them. The constant unsubstantiated tosh pushed out by the government, treating voters as if they are stupid has changed my vote from in to out!

If the government are so thick to think we cannot see through their lies and propaganda then we deserve to be out.

 

I agree he has damaged the credibility of the campaign. The thing is he doesn't need to lie. The case is strong enough already because the Brexit campaign is so weak.

[sutty27]

I agree that Cameron's performance has been bad, and the lies he's told are nothing less than I'd expect from him. After all his cabinets have regularly lied and cheated all the way since 2010.

 

I don't care who started it but the Brexit campaign have got themselves in a hole here. There's a big red sitting duck of a target driving all over the country, day after day.

 

As did the previous government, its a fact of life each party lies, withholds the truth or exaggerates in order to gain ground on the other side and time after time lying, withholding the truth and exaggerating are proven to be successful.

 

---------- Post added 28-05-2016 at 09:38 ----------

 

I agree he has damaged the credibility of the campaign. The thing is he doesn't need to lie. The case is strong enough already because the Brexit campaign is so weak.

 

Cameron lied because he knows that he can't win with the truth.

Edited May 28, 2016 by sutty27

[I1L2T3]

As did the previous government, its a fact of life each party lies, withholds the truth or exaggerates in order to gain ground on the other side and time after time lying, withholding the truth and exaggerating are proven to be successful.

 

---------- Post added 28-05-2016 at 09:38 ----------

 

 

He does need to lie though because without his lies Brexit would have easily won.

 

Thing is you supported all the lies. You spent day after day on here defending everything that Cameron's governments did.

 

You were delighted when they won the election in 2015. Maybe you even voted for them, taken in by the lie about reducing net immigration to < 100,000.

 

In the latest figures net non-EU immigration (the bit we can control) was almost 200,000, which is 60%-ish of the total.

 

A lot of people were taken in by the lies about immigration. The Brexit campaign is now using the total net figure (including the controllable non-EU element) to argue that figure is all because of the EU.

[unbeliever]

The rebate is applied a year after we pay the cash.

 

Then the honest thing to do would be to deduct last years rebate from this years payments.

Any cash which we get back with no strings attached (e.g. must be spent on XYZ) is clearly honestly stated as a reduction in the payment.

 

---------- Post added 28-05-2016 at 09:59 ----------

 

Thing is you supported all the lies. You spent day after day on here defending everything that Cameron's governments did.

 

You were delighted when they won the election in 2015. Maybe you even voted for them, taken in by the lie about reducing net immigration to < 100,000.

 

In the latest figures net non-EU immigration (the bit we can control) was almost 200,000, which is 60%-ish of the total.

 

A lot of people were taken in by the lies about immigration. The Brexit campaign is now using the total net figure (including the controllable non-EU element) to argue that figure is all because of the EU.

 

There's a bit more dishonesty there.

The EU is a pool of 300 million people. The rest of the world is a pool of 7000 million people. It's quite plausible that a merit based immigration system would let in a great many more from the rest of the world than from the EU.

So I don't see anything there in the fact that we currently have more coming in.

 

I do agree than the <100,000 figure from the election campaign was a stupid thing to say if there was no intent to hit it.

[sutty27]

Thing is you supported all the lies. You spent day after day on here defending everything that Cameron's governments did.

Now you are lying for some reason.

 

 

You were delighted when they won the election in 2015. Maybe you even voted for them, taken in by the lie about reducing net immigration to < 100,000.

 

Another lie.

In the latest figures net non-EU immigration (the bit we can control) was almost 200,000, which is 60%-ish of the total.

 

Another lie.

 

A lot of people were taken in by the lies about immigration. The Brexit campaign is now using the total net figure (including the controllable non-EU element) to argue that figure is all because of the EU.

 

And an other lie.

 

Or are you just misinformed and saying what you believe to be true?

[unbeliever]

I agree he has damaged the credibility of the campaign. The thing is he doesn't need to lie. The case is strong enough already because the Brexit campaign is so weak.

 

I feel the same way about the campaigns but in reverse. The Remain case is incredibly weak, so there should be no need for the Leave side to mislead us, except I suppose to balance the lies from the Remain side.

 

Above all I find it wholly implausible that we will, for any length of time, be allowed to remain stationary whilst tethered to a juggernaut headed toward full political and monetary union. I find it odd that you have such confidence, against the evidence of history, that this is what will happen. I cannot see staying in as anything other than a commitment to eventually be part of a united states of europe.

 

This issue has an impressive facility to divide us.

 

---------- Post added 28-05-2016 at 10:08 ----------

 

A lot of people were taken in by the lies about immigration. The Brexit campaign is now using the total net figure (including the controllable non-EU element) to argue that figure is all because of the EU.

 

Is there any truth to that? e.g. Does the EU impose any regulations on with regard to how we process non-EU immigrants. Or are the non-EU immigrants showing up with some kind of EU issued documentation which makes them difficult to reject.

I can't find anything clear on the subject, but perhaps somebody else on here knows?

Edited May 28, 2016 by unbeliever