EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[I1L2T3]

I feel the same way about the campaigns but in reverse. The Remain case is incredibly weak, so there should be no need for the Leave side to mislead us, except I suppose to balance the lies from the Remain side.

 

Above all I find it wholly implausible that we will, for any length of time, be allowed to remain stationary whilst tethered to a juggernaut headed toward full political and monetary union. I find it odd that you have such confidence, against the evidence of history, that this is what will happen. I cannot see staying in as anything other than a commitment to eventually be part of a united states of europe.

 

This issue has an impressive facility to divide us.

 

---------- Post added 28-05-2016 at 10:08 ----------

 

 

Is there any truth to that? e.g. Does the EU impose any regulations on with regard to how we process non-EU immigrants. Or are the non-EU immigrants showing up with some kind of EU issued documentation which makes them difficult to reject.

I can't find anything clear on the subject, but perhaps somebody else on here knows?

 

Well it's pretty true that the views are pretty entrenched for those people who have already decided which way they are going to vote. My view is that I'm willing to be persuaded, and from a left wing standpoint I can see plenty of reasons why the ways the EU has developed are bad. I can see how a case for leaving could be successfully argued even from a fairly moderate left wing standpoint.

 

The problem I have with the Brexit campaign is who is leading it. I absolutely would not want to hand any kind of mandate to the likes of Gove and Johnson.

 

That's it in a nutshell really. What they would want to offer in the event of Brexit, if they had the chance, is actually way worse than staying in the EU.

[retep]

 

Can't you do any better than the Express.

 

Nasty little xenophobic rag.

 

.

 

Don't like the news shoot the messenger eh?

 

No fence sitting for you you're for in and have been from the start.

[unbeliever]

Well it's pretty true that the views are pretty entrenched for those people who have already decided which way they are going to vote. My view is that I'm willing to be persuaded, and from a left wing standpoint I can see plenty of reasons why the ways the EU has developed are bad. I can see how a case for leaving could be successfully argued even from a fairly moderate left wing standpoint.

 

The problem I have with the Brexit campaign is who is leading it. I absolutely would not want to hand any kind of mandate to the likes of Gove and Johnson.

 

That's it in a nutshell really. What they would want to offer in the event of Brexit, if they had the chance, is actually way worse than staying in the EU.

 

That doesn't make much sense to me.

There's no indication that Gove and Johnson would end up running the country in the event of Brexit and even if they do, you can vote them out in 2020.

Certainly no sane reason (from my point of view) on which to base a decision of this constitutional magnitude.

[kidley]

i think i would have rather have, Gove or Johnson than Merkel. make no mistake as it stands now, She is the boss of the eu.

[I1L2T3]

That doesn't make much sense to me.

There's no indication that Gove and Johnson would end up running the country in the event of Brexit and even if they do, you can vote them out in 2020.

Certainly no sane reason (from my point of view) on which to base a decision of this constitutional magnitude.

 

Well, if you understand that both campaigns have been hijacked in a proxy battle between competing strands of the Tory party then you will understand the problem. At the end of the day this is not simply about whether we Brexit or not, but also about each strand of the party competing for a mandate for which brand of conservatism will be foisted on the country after June.

 

For a decision of this constitutional magnitude surely it is wrong for the campaigns to be hijacked in they way they have been.

 

---------- Post added 28-05-2016 at 11:14 ----------

 

Don't like the news shoot the messenger eh?

 

No fence sitting for you you're for in and have been from the start.

 

I made no secret my views were 60:40 to say in. I've wavered a bit, considering voting leave, but the way the Brexit campaign is being run means at the moment there is no way I can support it.

 

It is going to take some major event in the EU itself to change my mind. The Brexiters aren't going to do it for me.

[unbeliever]

Well, if you understand that both campaigns have been hijacked in a proxy battle between competing strands of the Tory party then you will understand the problem. At the end of the day this is not simply about whether we Brexit or not, but also about each strand of the party competing for a mandate for which brand of conservatism will be foisted on the country after June.

 

For a decision of this constitutional magnitude surely it is wrong for the campaigns to be hijacked in they way they have been.

 

Of course it is wrong for Johnson to use this matter to make a run for leadership. It does appear that's what he's doing.

But whatever game he's playing, it's up to us to decide based on the issues what we want for the future of our country.

It really makes no sense to sacrifice what we judge best for the next 40 or 400 years in order to influence the next 4.

[sutty27]

 

I made no secret my views were 60:40 to say in. I've wavered a bit, considering voting leave, but the way the Brexit campaign is being run means at the moment there is no way I can support it.

 

It is going to take some major event in the EU itself to change my mind. The Brexiters aren't going to do it for me.

 

So always been firmly in then and not on the fence, why allow your dislike of a political party to affect your position?

Edited May 28, 2016 by sutty27

[I1L2T3]

Of course it is wrong for Johnson to use this matter to make a run for leadership. It does appear that's what he's doing.

But whatever game he's playing, it's up to us to decide based on the issues what we want for the future of our country.

It really makes no sense to sacrifice what we judge best for the next 40 or 400 years in order to influence the next 4.

 

I tempted to say I would rather test the strength of Cameron's opt out on closer integration. I think if that doesn't deliver then we are entitled to another referendum and in that event I would be voting leave.

 

I don't think this is done and dusted yet, even if there is a vote to remain in June. More referendums to come IMO

 

---------- Post added 28-05-2016 at 11:32 ----------

 

So always been firmly in then and not on the fence, why allow your dislike of a political party to affect your position?

 

I just explained. If they regard a Brexit vote as a mandate for a more extreme and more damaging form of Conservatism then I think that makes Brexit even more dangerous.

 

In that case we would be safer staying in, for now.

[sutty27]

I tempted to say I would rather test the strength of Cameron's opt out on closer integration. I think if that doesn't deliver then we are entitled to another referendum and in that event I would be voting leave.

 

I don't think this is done and dusted yet, even if there is a vote to remain in June. More referendums to come IMO

 

If you want another referendum after this one assuming its a vote to stay in, it would mean voting for UKIP, could you bring yourself to do that?

 

---------- Post added 28-05-2016 at 11:35 ----------

 

I just explained. If they regard a Brexit vote as a mandate for a more extreme and more damaging form of Conservatism then I think that makes Brexit even more dangerous.

 

In that case we would be safer staying in, for now.

 

But if they did anything that the UK population didn't like they would be voted out and another government would deliver what the population wanted.

[I1L2T3]

If you want another referendum after this one assuming its a vote to stay in, it would mean voting for UKIP, could you bring yourself to do that?

 

The remain camp are campaigning on the basis of Cameron's opt-out on ever closer integration.

 

If that turns out to be worthless I honestly don't think any political party is going to be able to deny a further referendum.