EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[unbeliever]

I blame our government for the number of migrants in the NHS as well, and as I have stated in at least 200 of my 10000+ posts, leaving the EU is not going to stop that. It is the UK government that needs sorting out, blaming the EU for the shortcomings of the UK democratic system is the easy way out.

 

 

 

Have we got the Euro here? Wasn't aware of that? In the mean-time I offer you this overwhelming evidence that the economy will suffer upon Brexit.

 

What I particularly like about that article is that it eradicates the often heard argument in this thread from Brexiters when faced with evidence that the economy is likely to suffer: 'You can find economists saying whatever you want them to say'.

 

You can, but from now at least there is a significant study that backs the Remain argument for the economy.

 

Now all we need is the Remain camp to wake-up and undercut Cameron by stating unequivocally that Brexit will only reduce migration if the economy suffers and then spelling out what a suffering economy actually means.

 

Let's begin with the following two notions:

 

The UK is still heavily indebted, is still borrowing to meet its expenses and thus will have to cut public spending even further.

 

The tax-income as predicted now will drop if the economy suffers, a 1% drop in tax revenue for Georgie means that the 350 million a week claim will instantly become even more laughable because all of a sudden the country is losing that each week in lost tax revenue.

 

How many of these economists also predicted similar doom if we failed to join the Euro?

 

I just googled "uk not join euro" and various years from the late 90s through the early 00's. Various heavyweight economists and organisations predicting varying degrees of calamity resulting from the UK staying out of the Euro.

Looking in detail at one or two, it all seems to come down to the assumptions which go in. They're rather pessimistic about how keen people are to do business with the UK as a result of sticking with the pound.

If you make pessimistic assumptions about the trade terms between the UK and the EU following Brexit, then it looks bad. So it's not exactly dishonest. But why should be trust them accuracy this time? It'll all come down to the assumptions again.

Edited May 29, 2016 by unbeliever

[panzer1]

If we come out of the EU but still have to accept free movement would we still have to pay these people benefits when they come here and provide a house. If not then the people, whatever the number, that come here, would not come her so that would be a drop in numbers,

The fact that we let in non eu migrants is a red herring to some degree. These people are generally highly skilled, have to have tens of thousands in the bank to prove they will not be a burden to uk tax payers.

The eu migrants are, even by remains own admission, low skilled. For me Shef I think if you are on benefits and a job that fits your skill set is available then you should take it or lose your benefits.

[I1L2T3]

If we come out of the EU but still have to accept free movement would we still have to pay these people benefits when they come here and provide a house. If not then the people, whatever the number, that come here, would not come her so that would be a drop in numbers,

The fact that we let in non eu migrants is a red herring to some degree. These people are generally highly skilled, have to have tens of thousands in the bank to prove they will not be a burden to uk tax payers.

The eu migrants are, even by remains own admission, low skilled. For me Shef I think if you are on benefits and a job that fits your skill set is available then you should take it or lose your benefits.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but I could tell you some stories about big companies, some household names, that have utterly abused the system lying about the skills of the people they have brought in. The savings requirement does not exist for all types of migrants either.

 

As for the EU migrants there is as pattern of highly qualified people taking low paid jobs in the UK.

[panzer1]

Cannot say for all non eu as I know only one who works for Boots and he has to have £34000 in the bank to stay here, he is from India.

With the current state of the eu economies I understand about taking a job below your skill set but the latest figures from the ons says 77000 came from the eu without jobs.I assume these people go straight on to benefits with housing so after brexit, if we have to allow free movement do we have to pay these people benefits.

If they cannot get benefits then I don,t think that 77000 would come.

[sutty27]

Eh? What do you want me to Google? EU nationals do not benefit the NHS? I can Google it but I cannot use it to prove a negative.

 

Sutty27's point has been discussed above already with another user. I never said all 54,000 were nurses.

 

I'm sorry I fail to reach your expectations of a scientist retep!!

 

The same applies for all NHS staff, not enough training places for medical students, doctors, pharmacists.

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2016 at 20:03 ----------

 

I blame our government for the number of migrants in the NHS as well, and as I have stated in at least 200 of my 10000+ posts, leaving the EU is not going to stop that. It is the UK government that needs sorting out, blaming the EU for the shortcomings of the UK democratic system is the easy way out.

 

I don't blame the EU, I blame our government, but whilst in the EU they can always fall back on the excuse that we can't stop EU migrants. I don't want them to have an excuse.

[ukdobby]

I will vote to stay,better the devil you know,in or out we will have trouble with immigrants,they're are now starting to boat over the channel,it will get worse.

[I1L2T3]

Incredible stuff in the Sunday Times today as a Tory MP was reported as saying about David Cameron:

 

"I want to stab him in the front so I can see the expression on his face. You’d have to twist the knife, though, because we want it back for [George] Osborne.

 

“All we have to do is catch the prime minister with a live boy or a dead girl and we are away."

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tory-mp-demands-david-cameron-resign-over-brexit-lies-on-live-tv_uk_574ab863e4b02163fae8f39c

 

This is why I don't want to hand any kind of mandate to the Tory right. They are utter scum.

[panzer1]

i am still voting to leave because I do not like the devil I know and would like to see what the new devil has to offer.Immigration is only one part of the problem, lack of democracy - junker saying the eu will side line any democratically elected right wing govt, lack of accountability, too much red tape, euro crisis - both Italy and Greece still in deep poo with Spain close behind.If you were voting to join, would you because I would not, so that is why I am out and will never change my mind.

I respect your choice but I hope more people think like me than you:hihi:

[tzijlstra]

If we come out of the EU but still have to accept free movement would we still have to pay these people benefits when they come here and provide a house. If not then the people, whatever the number, that come here, would not come her so that would be a drop in numbers,

The fact that we let in non eu migrants is a red herring to some degree. These people are generally highly skilled, have to have tens of thousands in the bank to prove they will not be a burden to uk tax payers.

The eu migrants are, even by remains own admission, low skilled. For me Shef I think if you are on benefits and a job that fits your skill set is available then you should take it or lose your benefits.

 

Britain is one of few rich EU member states that does. It is something that can be changed by altering UK law, no need to leave the EU to do so. The fact it hasn't happened yet says a lot about the incompetence of the UK government and the archaic legal system it is working in.

 

I don't blame the EU, I blame our government, but whilst in the EU they can always fall back on the excuse that we can't stop EU migrants. I don't want them to have an excuse.

 

How will you respond when they come up with a new excuse. Immigration and the economy are linked, any incumbent post-Brexit government will know that. They might close the tap a little, but they can't shut it down in an effort to limit immigration as it will also shut the tap on tax-revenues which are directly linked to the economy.

 

I will vote to stay,better the devil you know,in or out we will have trouble with immigrants,they're are now starting to boat over the channel,it will get worse.

 

You are right Dobby - there is also the following to consider - illegal immigrants are already finding their way here in droves. It is an illusion that this sort of traficking hasn't been happening for decades already. At least by working with the EU there is a chance to combat illegal human traficking.

 

i am still voting to leave because I do not like the devil I know and would like to see what the new devil has to offer.Immigration is only one part of the problem, lack of democracy - junker saying the eu will side line any democratically elected right wing govt, lack of accountability, too much red tape, euro crisis - both Italy and Greece still in deep poo with Spain close behind.If you were voting to join, would you because I would not, so that is why I am out and will never change my mind.

I respect your choice but I hope more people think like me than you:hihi:

 

Juncker has said he will not negotiate with governments that reduce democratic rights, freedom of speech, political freedom and/or human rights. in reaction to the far right Austrian who wanted to introduce legislation not just to limit migration but also to remove migrants from Austria.

 

It is typical of British press to interpret that in the way that you do. Interestingly it is also only interpreted in that manner by pro-Brexit media. I wonder why?

 

As for the 'euro-crisis' you mention, rather similar. The Eurozone has been catching up tremendously in economic terms and as a whole is now starting to pay back the debt that the 2008 crisis brought with it. That is better than the British who are still borrowing more.

[sutty27]

Incredible stuff in the Sunday Times today as a Tory MP was reported as saying about David Cameron:

 

"I want to stab him in the front so I can see the expression on his face. You’d have to twist the knife, though, because we want it back for [George] Osborne.

 

“All we have to do is catch the prime minister with a live boy or a dead girl and we are away."

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tory-mp-demands-david-cameron-resign-over-brexit-lies-on-live-tv_uk_574ab863e4b02163fae8f39c

 

This is why I don't want to hand any kind of mandate to the Tory right. They are utter scum.

 

So basically you are voting in because you hate the Tories.