EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[unbeliever]

Because we should be dealing with the issues we can address first, like non-EU immigration.

 

The net growth in immigration last year was so high because the net increase in non-EU migration was 56% of the total net increase.

 

So EU immigration is half the problem.

We therefore can only address half the problem whilst members of the EU.

Of course we should address the non-EU half of the problem but this thread is about EU membership.

[sutty27]

Interesting. What if during the 2-5 years there was a mass influx of EU migrants looking to get into Britain while they still could. I mean if a few million extra people rocked up then is somebody going to tell us how we deport them afterwards? Who is going to pay for that? Are our border agencies and police forces big enough? Have we got the necessary custody arrangements?

You appear to want your cake and eat it.

I always find it a bit bizarre when the same people claim that immigrants will still come here in there thousands after Brexit and our economy will crash after Brexit resulting in thousands of job losses. If the UK economy crashes after Brexit and people loose their jobs, the likely result is those able to leave will leave and the influx of migrant will stop.

[I1L2T3]

So EU immigration is half the problem.

We therefore can only address half the problem whilst members of the EU.

Of course we should address the non-EU half of the problem but this thread is about EU membership.

 

You're missing the point. There has always been an element we can control but the party you vehemently support has chosen not to.

 

The EU element of immigration practically controls itself in net terms. We export our aging ex-pats, we import tax-paying young workers.

 

If the non-EU element of immigration had been properly controlled the pressures on services and housing would not be so great. But your party chose not to. Do you know why?

 

---------- Post added 30-05-2016 at 10:38 ----------

 

You appear to want your cake and eat it.

I always find it a bit bizarre when the same people claim that immigrants will still come here in there thousands after Brexit and our economy will crash after Brexit resulting in thousands of job losses. If the UK economy crashes after Brexit and people loose their jobs, the likely result is those able to leave will leave and the influx of migrant will stop.

 

So you want to crash the economy in order to control immigration.

 

That sounds idiotic.

[sutty27]

You're missing the point. There has always been an element we can control but the party you vehemently support has chosen not to.

 

The EU element of immigration practically controls itself in net terms. We export our aging ex-pats, we import tax-paying young workers.

 

If the non-EU element of immigration had been properly controlled the pressures on services and housing would not be so great. But your party chose not to. Do you know why?

 

The aging ex-pats have more spending power than the low waged immigrants, and they don't compete for work so don't drive wages down nor do they claim in work benefits like the low waged imigrants. Most of the non EU immigrants are here to study so also don't drive wages down.

 

---------- Post added 30-05-2016 at 10:44 ----------

 

 

So you want to crash the economy in order to control immigration.

 

That sounds idiotic.

 

You do have some very bizarre ideas, you claimed the economy will crash, you claim leaving the EU won't slow down immigration, why would immigrants still come here if there are no jobs for them? you can't have it both ways.

Edited May 30, 2016 by sutty27

[unbeliever]

You're missing the point. There has always been an element we can control but the party you vehemently support has chosen not to.

 

The EU element of immigration practically controls itself in net terms. We export our aging ex-pats, we import tax-paying young workers.

 

If the non-EU element of immigration had been properly controlled the pressures on services and housing would not be so great. But your party chose not to. Do you know why?

 

Wealthy pensioners also pay taxes. As I keep saying I'm not terribly interested in migration as I think there are far bigger issues at stake. However one thing has caught my attention:

 

I believe the statistics which say that EU migrants pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits. That's one of those misleading statistics that the remain folk love. You were complaining before about the £350m/week as was I as it is deceptive and dishonest and it's quite possible to make the case without it.

Surely comparing benefits paid with taxes paid is deceptive in exactly the same way. What we should actually compare is taxes paid with the total cost of benefits paid and public services consumed.

 

Would you agree that this is pretty much the same kind of deception and should be subject to the same condemnation?

[tzijlstra]

The aging ex-pats have more spending power than the low waged immigrants, and they don't compete for work so don't drive wages down nor do they claim in work benefits like the low waged imigrants. Most of the non EU immigrants are here to study so also don't drive wages down.

 

Nonsense, our ageing expats also cost a hell of a lot more to the system due to ever increasing age and healthcare needs. Wages in the UK are already high compared to most other developed economies so that argument is a strawman as well.

 

You do have some very bizarre ideas, you claimed the economy will crash, you claim leaving the EU won't slow down immigration, why would immigrants still come here if there are no jobs for them? you can't have it both ways.

 

So there we have it on a platter Sutty, immigration is going to slow down only if the economy crashes.

[unbeliever]

Nonsense, our ageing expats also cost a hell of a lot more to the system due to ever increasing age and healthcare needs. Wages in the UK are already high compared to most other developed economies so that argument is a strawman as well.

 

Are they entitled to state funded healthcare in Spain? My reading of Spanish law is that they are not.

 

So there we have it on a platter Sutty, immigration is going to slow down only if the economy crashes.

 

That's not what he said. He said immigration would reduce if the economy crashed, not that this was the only way it would reduce.

Edited May 30, 2016 by unbeliever

[sutty27]

Nonsense, our ageing expats also cost a hell of a lot more to the system due to ever increasing age and healthcare needs. Wages in the UK are already high compared to most other developed economies so that argument is a strawman as well.

 

 

 

So there we have it on a platter Sutty, immigration is going to slow down only if the economy crashes.

 

Many of them have to come back here to access health care, so we pay for their health car but we don't benefit from their spending.

 

 

Immigration will slow down if the economy crashes, but it won't slow down only if the economy crashes, it can slow down whilst the economy is growing but that will be down to our elected government.

 

---------- Post added 30-05-2016 at 11:06 ----------

 

Are they entitled to state funded healthcare in Spain? My reading of Spanish law is that they are not.

 

There was an old war vet on question time, his health card was marked with an red x whilst living in Spain, they told him to go home as they couldn't afford to treat him. He claimed that when it came to health care the British were treated as second class citizens and many of them had to come back to the UK to get treatment, unless they had private insurance.

[mrsmontague]

Well, I an stunned at this government !

So many people living out on the streets, sleeping rough, in nasty B&Bs.

We need to take care of our own first and foremost, I feel honest deep sadness for the people fleeing horrors, in their own countries.

There is only so much a country can do, and we are failing, with our own citizens.

Our kids are suffering as well, hungry, living in a single bedroom, it forced to have a long term detrimental physical, and emotional effect.

I think, if we leave the EU, IT WOULD BE STUPIDITY.

We need the covering it offers, if its only to keep Cameron in order.

I dread to think what he may do, left without any constraints, and his own agenda

All I can say is I detest this dictatorship by Cameron, and his cohorts.

The rich get richer, and the downtrodden, more crushed.

Much will have more and more.

This government needs to govern . . . . NOT DICTATE !!!!!!.

[I1L2T3]

The aging ex-pats have more spending power than the low waged immigrants, and they don't compete for work so don't drive wages down nor do they claim in work benefits like the low waged imigrants. Most of the non EU immigrants are here to study so also don't drive wages down.

 

---------- Post added 30-05-2016 at 10:44 ----------

 

 

You do have some very bizarre ideas, you claimed the economy will crash, you claim leaving the EU won't slow down immigration, why would immigrants still come here if there are no jobs for them? you can't have it both ways.

 

So you are supporting non-EU immigration while trying to stop EU immigration? I guess that is what many Tories seem to have on their agenda so I guess that fits.

 

As for the mass migration/economic crash scenario its quite possible that a Brexit vote will tip the EU into crisis. We might be the best option in that case and as the process will take years to complete we would still have free movement for a long time.

 

You seem to be making the mistake of assuming that everything will be neat and predictable, that Brexit = reduced migration. If the dreams of Brexiters come to fruition we will have a more healthy economy looking outwards to the rest of the world. That could quite possibly make the immigration issues even more acute, especially if coupled with Schengen membership as part of the EEA.

 

I don't think Brexiters on the ground have thought this through at all, not like the Brexit leaders.