EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[I1L2T3]

When in the last 44 years have you had sufficiently high estimation of our politicians that you would have trusted them with this job?

These are the people we voted for to govern us. I'm not at all comfortable with the idea that it's okay to hobble them because we don't like the choice the people have made.

 

This feels rather like reaching for an excuse to vote in. Convince me I've misunderstood.

 

I don't think we've had a worse crop of politicians since I became politically aware in the late 70s. We also have the added issue of holding the UK together and preventing the departure of Scotland in the event of Brexit.

 

Our politicians are not up to it. Both main parties are weak and more interested in their internal battles. Its not the right time.

 

I'm not making excuses. It became clear to me over the weekend that once you have MPs hoping for a paedophilia scandal to take down their own PM then our politics is too weak and fractured to deal with the biggest change the country will have seen for decades.

[unbeliever]

I don't think we've had a worse crop of politicians since I became politically aware in the late 70s. We also have the added issue of holding the UK together and preventing the departure of Scotland in the event of Brexit.

 

Our politicians are not up to it. Both main parties are weak and more interested in their internal battles. Its not the right time.

 

I'm not making excuses. It became clear to me over the weekend that once you have MPs hoping for a paedophilia scandal to take down their own PM then our politics is too weak and fractured to deal with the biggest change the country will have seen for decades.

 

I've not been following politics quite as long, but I remember that the late Thatcher and entire Major government were subject to far more strife. And the '90s and 00's Labour government was perpetually briefing against each other.

It seems to me to have been relatively quiet since 2010.

 

I think Scotland probably should have gone its own way. They've drifted too far away from England politically.

Edited May 30, 2016 by unbeliever

[sutty27]

I don't want to be treated like a Mexican or an Indian. I want to be treated like a European.

 

You could have been honest about that from the start instead of pretending that you was undecided, if the free movement of people is the most important thing for you then vote in and I will respect your decision.

[panzer1]

The majority of politicians may enter with the best of intentions but they quickly become in it for themselves. You have to remember no matter what party they belong to they are out for themselves, it's just the tortes are more honest about it.

Look at Blair, if you did not know his history you would swear the multi millionaire was a Tory. I despise them all.

The true politician working for the benefit of the masses became extinct centuries ago, you just have to vote for the party that will do the least damage to you.

[High Greener]

Strange poll results give what the BBC and bookies are saying

[panzer1]

As for Scotland leaving the union I think they would miss us more than we would miss them and unless the eu was there to bail them out like they do eastern countries they would very quickly be in trouble, but that is a different debate.

[tzijlstra]

The majority of politicians may enter with the best of intentions but they quickly become in it for themselves. You have to remember no matter what party they belong to they are out for themselves, it's just the tortes are more honest about it.

Look at Blair, if you did not know his history you would swear the multi millionaire was a Tory. I despise them all.

The true politician working for the benefit of the masses became extinct centuries ago, you just have to vote for the party that will do the least damage to you.

 

That is a result of the system here, it genuinely is. I can illustrate it using the Dutch proportional representation example as well. If you go to the "1982 tot heden" table you see an overview of parties (rows) and the number of seats they achieved in each election (columns).

 

Traditionally the CDA, PvdA and VVD are the biggest parties, they have most money and most loyal followers, they are basically the Christians, Labour and Conservatives respectively. But they can't govern without having a coalition.

 

That is where it becomes interesting, the grey squares denote which party was in the coalition after each election. So if you see the 2010 elections, the PVV (Geert Wilders - populist anti immigration a la Farage) actually got into power. In other words, voting for the party you want in actually works. The only thing you can do in Britain is vote against or for. That is it.

 

It is almost entirely binary: It is a rubbish system because it means that the other party (now Labour) just has to wait whilst the Tories fall out of favour with the public and than they'll be in power again. There is no contest which means whatever party is in power can do whatever the hell they like. It disenfranchises people from politics.

[unbeliever]

That is a result of the system here, it genuinely is. I can illustrate it using the Dutch proportional representation example as well. If you go to the "1982 tot heden" table you see an overview of parties (rows) and the number of seats they achieved in each election (columns).

 

Traditionally the CDA, PvdA and VVD are the biggest parties, they have most money and most loyal followers, they are basically the Christians, Labour and Conservatives respectively. But they can't govern without having a coalition.

 

That is where it becomes interesting, the grey squares denote which party was in the coalition after each election. So if you see the 2010 elections, the PVV (Geert Wilders - populist anti immigration a la Farage) actually got into power. In other words, voting for the party you want in actually works. The only thing you can do in Britain is vote against or for. That is it.

 

It is almost entirely binary: It is a rubbish system because it means that the other party (now Labour) just has to wait whilst the Tories fall out of favour with the public and than they'll be in power again. There is no contest which means whatever party is in power can do whatever the hell they like. It disenfranchises people from politics.

 

Yes. We should have a referendum on changing the system here. Oh wait....

 

Are your "Christian" party actually theocrats? If so that's rather scary.

 

Do you have a constituency MP to take your problems to which can then take them up with the government?

Edited May 30, 2016 by unbeliever

[tzijlstra]

Yes. We should have a referendum on changing the system here. Oh wait....

 

Are your "Christian" party actually theocrats? If so that's rather scary.

 

Do you have a constituency MP to take your problems to which can then take them up with the government?

 

We should have had a referendum on proportional representation, not the dumbed down, watered down FPTP nonsense we got. The CDA aren't theocrats, although they did oppose various laws due to it being against their faith, euthanasia and abortion being obvious ones. They also block things like sunday opening hours for all shops etc. Nothing scary about them, almost every European country has a party with a Christian focus. Fortunately they are on the wane, there is one strong secular Christian party, SGP, who always win two seats due to appealing to ultra-conservatives, they were slapped down recently because they didn't allow women votes in party-meetings, they would be scary, if bible-bashers are scary and if they had a cat's chance in hell of gaining more than two seats. On the other end of the scale we have the Party for the Animals, they are downright scary, demanding price-hikes in meat in supermarkets and so on, but at least it means the Vegans can vote for someone they relate to as well. That is the whole point - Proportional Representation opens up the floor for alternative ways of looking at things. Over time we have had other oddities, a full blown Communist Party, a racist party, a republican party, a houseparty... (joke, the last one anyway).

 

You don't need a constituent MP in the Netherlands, and I would question how useful it is to have one here, I know we have been palmed off on a rather significant topic by our repeat-order Labour MP. In the Netherlands you can ask direct parliamentary questions by petitioning your party (if you are a member, I have had questions about local governance and student-loans dealt with) or you can trigger a debate in the 'Tweede Kamer' or even trigger a full-scale referendum by gaining a number of signatures on online petitions.

Edited May 30, 2016 by tzijlstra

[sutty27]

We should have had a referendum on proportional representation, not the dumbed down, watered down FPTP nonsense we got.

 

Yes we should but its not in the best interest of Lab/Con and their supporters so it very unlikely that we will ever get one.