unbeliever Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Businesses aren't worried about tariffs so much, it is the paperwork. It is the SINGLE market, not the FREE market that worries them. There's a trade-off there though. Trade with the EU may be subject to more paperwork. On the other hand, trade outside the EU will be subject to less paperwork as compliance with EU regulations will no longer be necessary. Last time I checked less than half our trade was with the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Last week 16 per cent of bets at Ladbrokes were placed on Brexit, this week 49.7 per cent was placed on Brexit with some punters betting thousands on the outcome. Ladbrokes are baffled as to why. I can tell you why, the punters have been talking to friends, colleagues etc and realised the remainers only exist on forums and newspaper websites, in real life they are as rare as rocking horse crxp. Well there you go, more bets mean they have to change the odds. They're in it to make money. If a nag is a hundred to one outsider but has a funky name and loads of people back it the odds get slashed. I googled your claim though, out of interest. One article I found reporting as you claim also contains a survey. It suggests only half the people surveyed have any confidence Brexit will reduce migration. As it's such a major issue for many, why is confidence so low Brexit will make a difference? Anyone having a punt for the £50m?? I saw the leave broadcast today, just after Look North. I do enjoy being patronised. http://www.cityam.com/242238/ladbrokes-cuts-brexit-odds-as-poll-shows-increasing-support-for-leave-campaign Edited May 31, 2016 by Shef1985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 There's a trade-off there though. Trade with the EU may be subject to more paperwork. On the other hand, trade outside the EU will be subject to less paperwork as compliance with EU regulations will no longer be necessary. Last time I checked less than half our trade was with the EU. You keep failing to understand this point, and I admit I might not have made it clear enough, so I will try again. It isn't just trade-regulations, it is access to a single market - ie. a market that accepts the same standards throughout with free movement of goods and people. You take the 'free' away and it hinders movement of goods and people (services). So Brian the mining-engineer suddenly needs to do a job in Poland now, he hops on a plane (after having his passport checked) to Krakow, gets in a taxi, talks to his clients, done. He tells them they need 15 pneumatic drills produced by Drill Ltd. in Chesterfield, whilst he is there he rings Drill Ltd. to confirm the order, they stick them on the back of a lorry, the lorry sets off and a day or two later arrives at Krakow with the drills. Done. Now though, we take that free movement away. He has to get a visa (assuming the UK does away with free movement of people), delaying his ability to get to Krakow in a hurry. He gets it in a few days, because the EU is jovial about Brits getting a visa, he gets to Krakow and puts in the order for the drills, but now the drills all of a sudden are subject to a range of checks, do they comply with EU standards? Do they actually measure 1,25 mtr in length like the paperwork says? Are the VAT documents in order? It takes the border-control longer to process it, it costs Drill Ltd. a lot of unnecessary overhead whilst checking all the paperwork is in order and so on. All of a sudden the drills take 4 days instead of 2 to get there. The Poles can't wait for a whole week so decide that instead of Brian the Brit, Ignazio the Italian can come over, he has similar expertise and connections, but now with Drillia SrlA. but without all the hassle involved that Brian has to go through he becomes a far more interesting option for them. That sort of paperwork will still be involved for Andy the Aussie coming to do trade in the UK by the way. He has to get a visa, he has to check his merchandise measures up to the UK standards etc. It isn't as simple as you make it out to be Unbeliever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 nice to see wetherspoons getting in on the act https://www.politicshome.com/news/europe/eu-policy-agenda/brexit/dot-commons-diary/75585/boozers-brexit-%E2%80%93-wetherspoons-gets I wonder if anyone can answer the questions on their beermats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 nice to see wetherspoons getting in on the act https://www.politicshome.com/news/europe/eu-policy-agenda/brexit/dot-commons-diary/75585/boozers-brexit-%E2%80%93-wetherspoons-gets I wonder if anyone can answer the questions on their beermats Does the average drinker in a Wetherspoons not know the difference between the IMF and the EU then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon1 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Does the average drinker in a Wetherspoons not know the difference between the IMF and the EU then? Nope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 There's a trade-off there though. Trade with the EU may be subject to more paperwork. On the other hand, trade outside the EU will be subject to less paperwork as compliance with EU regulations will no longer be necessary. Last time I checked less than half our trade was with the EU. I dont think companies large enough to trade internationally are too worried about paperwork. If we export to the USA we manufacture to their standards, if we sell to the EU we manufacture the the EU standard. ---------- Post added 01-06-2016 at 01:16 ---------- nice to see wetherspoons getting in on the act https://www.politicshome.com/news/europe/eu-policy-agenda/brexit/dot-commons-diary/75585/boozers-brexit-%E2%80%93-wetherspoons-gets I wonder if anyone can answer the questions on their beermats If you read their magazine, send in a letter and get £20 if it gets published. Lots of info on here to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 You keep failing to understand this point, and I admit I might not have made it clear enough, so I will try again. It isn't just trade-regulations, it is access to a single market - ie. a market that accepts the same standards throughout with free movement of goods and people. You take the 'free' away and it hinders movement of goods and people (services). So Brian the mining-engineer suddenly needs to do a job in Poland now, he hops on a plane (after having his passport checked) to Krakow, gets in a taxi, talks to his clients, done. He tells them they need 15 pneumatic drills produced by Drill Ltd. in Chesterfield, whilst he is there he rings Drill Ltd. to confirm the order, they stick them on the back of a lorry, the lorry sets off and a day or two later arrives at Krakow with the drills. Done. Now though, we take that free movement away. He has to get a visa (assuming the UK does away with free movement of people), delaying his ability to get to Krakow in a hurry. He gets it in a few days, because the EU is jovial about Brits getting a visa, he gets to Krakow and puts in the order for the drills, but now the drills all of a sudden are subject to a range of checks, do they comply with EU standards? Do they actually measure 1,25 mtr in length like the paperwork says? Are the VAT documents in order? It takes the border-control longer to process it, it costs Drill Ltd. a lot of unnecessary overhead whilst checking all the paperwork is in order and so on. All of a sudden the drills take 4 days instead of 2 to get there. The Poles can't wait for a whole week so decide that instead of Brian the Brit, Ignazio the Italian can come over, he has similar expertise and connections, but now with Drillia SrlA. but without all the hassle involved that Brian has to go through he becomes a far more interesting option for them. That sort of paperwork will still be involved for Andy the Aussie coming to do trade in the UK by the way. He has to get a visa, he has to check his merchandise measures up to the UK standards etc. It isn't as simple as you make it out to be Unbeliever. Trev the Brit and Tony the Brit are having similar problem buying from Italian Drillia SrlA, so they look closer to home and find that English company Drill Ltd produce the pneumatic drills they need, so they do the deal with Brian the Brit who now as to expand his business because for every sale he loses in the rest of Europe he gains 2 new costumers from the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Trev the Brit and Tony the Brit are having similar problem buying from Italian Drillia SrlA, so they look closer to home and find that English company Drill Ltd produce the pneumatic drills they need, so they do the deal with Brian the Brit who now as to expand his business because for every sale he loses in the rest of Europe he gains 2 new costumers from the UK. Yes, because there are many coal-mines left in Britain. If you genuinely believe that a market a sixth the size of the single EU market is going to create two new customers for every lost EU customer for British firms than you are a fool. ---------- Post added 01-06-2016 at 07:27 ---------- nice to see wetherspoons getting in on the act https://www.politicshome.com/news/europe/eu-policy-agenda/brexit/dot-commons-diary/75585/boozers-brexit-%E2%80%93-wetherspoons-gets I wonder if anyone can answer the questions on their beermats Pathetic... So they can't distinguish between IMF and EU even at the top-level of Wetherspoons? Turns out you don't have to be educated to run a multi-million pound business. My word do they show themselves up as idiots here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Mass immigration is a tool used by the wealthy to import cheap low skilled labour, increasing competition for unskilled and semi-skilled jobs, increasing competition for housing, education, health care etc. Mass immigration is an attack upon the living standards of the poorest in society. It is fanatically desired and championed by those whose wealth insulates them from its damaging effects. I'm now voting Leave because I oppose the rich using the mass importation of low skilled migrants to drive down wages and increase competition for basic necessities. Smash the rich! Leave the EU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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