cgksheff Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Well. My debate is over. Postal Ballot completed and despatched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Well. My debate is over. Postal Ballot completed and despatched. You're the second person to announce that today. Where's mine? Rotherham council better get their act together soon. ---------- Post added 01-06-2016 at 19:12 ---------- Please highlight how I'm wrong. And as far as environmental issues are concerned the EU does do some things a lot better than we do. We won't take up the slack, the green lobby in this country isn't powerful enough by a mile. The changes in environmental standards are, in my opinion, down to changes in what the people want, not down to who's in charge of the rules. Can you imagine the '80s Conservative government trying to get votes by promising to be "the greenest government ever"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerousedd Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 got my postal vote too, at least Sheffield council were efficient at sending them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 got my postal vote too, at least Sheffield council were efficient at sending them out. Grrrr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobileB Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 You know I have just read through the last few pages of this thread and it does seem concerning the number of people who want to vote on ideological issues (or at least that is what they are saying) rather than what is best for the country, themselves and the future generations. Without doubt, if we were to exit, then there would be a shock to the economy. It is starting to feel it now just through the referendum itself. I was speaking with a HR Manager today who was telling me that their company has 7,000 jobs that are 100% reliant on the EU - these jobs will almost certainly be lost if we were to come out. It is not about whether Bob can sell his drill bits to Poland or not (although that was a very good summary of some of the issues) but around a third of our exports to the EU are service industry - things like insurance services - which can very easily be replaced within the EU but which the we could not replace from our own internal market. It is a fact that the shock will cause the market to shrink so just some of the points on the last few pages are worrying: - The EU puts pressure on jobs to drive wages down .... which jobs will be the first to go if the economy shrinks (which it will)? Not just the services jobs but the other jobs behind the spend of these. - The immigrants take up our jobs - if the economy shrinks by anything like 2% in the next 3-4 years there won't be many jobs for them (or for the Brits that will be out of work as above) - Housing market will go down which is good for first time buyers - except people will be put in negative equity and therefore cannot afford to sell to the first time buyers (the first time market is reliant on people being able to move up the property ladder) We may be the 5th biggest economy in the world but we are 5th because we are able to export as much as we do to the EU. That is not the EU being reliant on our trade but us being reliant on them. The stuff we export is very transferable to Frankfurt. I wonder why 78% of MPs want to stay in and only 22% want out (the majority of which are Tories anyway) when MPs would gain more, allegedly, from having our own sovereignty. So, if your vote is against the system then this is not the one to do it with. By all means vote out and look forward to a world of Farage, Johnson and Gove - and at the same time look forward to our cousins across the water voting in Trump. What a great world we would be giving our kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) You know I have just read through the last few pages of this thread and it does seem concerning the number of people who want to vote on ideological issues (or at least that is what they are saying) rather than what is best for the country, themselves and the future generations. ideology is important. The country needs good political accountability and its people need self-determination. Without doubt, if we were to exit, then there would be a shock to the economy. It is starting to feel it now just through the referendum itself. I was speaking with a HR Manager today who was telling me that their company has 7,000 jobs that are 100% reliant on the EU - these jobs will almost certainly be lost if we were to come out. He has no idea what he's talking about. Even the most pessimistic in the remain camp will not tell you that 100% of jobs based on EU trade will be lost as they have made no claim that all EU trade will be lost. It is not about whether Bob can sell his drill bits to Poland or not (although that was a very good summary of some of the issues) but around a third of our exports to the EU are service industry - things like insurance services - which can very easily be replaced within the EU but which the we could not replace from our own internal market. You make the false assumption that there will be significant issues in trading services with the EU following Brexit. It is a fact that the shock will cause the market to shrink so just some of the points on the last few pages are worrying: Not it is not a fact. Although many economists and economic bodies have made a prediction of a reduced rate of growth, that is quite different to predicting a contraction. I don't think their right about reduced growth either, but I have no need to persuade you of that to counter your post. All the rest of this is founded on your false assumption. - The EU puts pressure on jobs to drive wages down .... which jobs will be the first to go if the economy shrinks (which it will)? Not just the services jobs but the other jobs behind the spend of these. - The immigrants take up our jobs - if the economy shrinks by anything like 2% in the next 3-4 years there won't be many jobs for them (or for the Brits that will be out of work as above) - Housing market will go down which is good for first time buyers - except people will be put in negative equity and therefore cannot afford to sell to the first time buyers (the first time market is reliant on people being able to move up the property ladder) We may be the 5th biggest economy in the world but we are 5th because we are able to export as much as we do to the EU. That is not the EU being reliant on our trade but us being reliant on them. The stuff we export is very transferable to Frankfurt. If they refuse to buy stuff from us, we refuse to buy it from them. That'll cost them more and they're not stupid (well not that stupid). I wonder why 78% of MPs want to stay in and only 22% want out (the majority of which are Tories anyway) when MPs would gain more, allegedly, from having our own sovereignty. So, if your vote is against the system then this is not the one to do it with. By all means vote out and look forward to a world of Farage, Johnson and Gove - and at the same time look forward to our cousins across the water voting in Trump. What a great world we would be giving our kids. Drivel. Farage in charge of the UK will never happen and even Boris would be better than Corbyn. I have no idea why so many MPs are for remain. I think your numbers are off anyway. Partly because they don't sound right and partly because all your other numbers are off so I think it's a good assumption. Many are probably blindly following their leaders. Anyway, thankfully it's not up to them, it's up to us. Edited June 1, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 - Housing market will go down which is good for first time buyers - except people will be put in negative equity and therefore cannot afford to sell to the first time buyers (the first time market is reliant on people being able to move up the property ladder) A 20% fall would affect very few people because of the amount property prices have increased. We may be the 5th biggest economy in the world but we are 5th because we are able to export as much as we do to the EU. That is not the EU being reliant on our trade but us being reliant on them. The stuff we export is very transferable to Frankfurt.We may be the 5th biggest economy in the world because we consume a lot in comparison to most other countries, it has nothing at all to do with how much we export to the EU. I wonder why 78% of MPs want to stay in and only 22% want out (the majority of which are Tories anyway) when MPs would gain more, allegedly, from having our own sovereignty. So, if your vote is against the system then this is not the one to do it with. By all means vote out and look forward to a world of Farage, Johnson and Gove - and at the same time look forward to our cousins across the water voting in Trump. What a great world we would be giving our kids. Not sure where you got them figures from . Two-thirds of Conservative MPs now support Britain’s exit from the European Union. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/09/tory-mps-britain-european-union-eu-brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidley Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 when i read the above (MonileB) i thought it was Mr Cameron posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobileB Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Again total ignorance of the issues. Real issues. But just for the MP stats here you go:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946 But I will admit my figures were wrong .... its 76.12% of MPs not 78% And the company has already put in place plans to move 7000 jobs to Bulgaria in case UK comes out. It is for business operated on behalf of a huge South Korean company. They want to keep the business and that is what they will need to do. Companies across the UK are doing exactly this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 when i read the above (MonileB) i thought it was Mr Cameron posting. I find it utterly bizarre that some people cannot grasp that other people might just think that staying in the EU is in our country's best interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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