EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[L00b]

Thanks for the detailed reply and links, sutty.

To summarise, “acquired rights” – also known as “executed rights” or “vested rights” – do continue to apply to individuals. So firm are they embedded in the international order that they have acquired the status of “customary law”, which means the principle does not need to be anchored by any particularly treaty, but stands alone as a fundamental principle of international law.

I have seen that legal opinion in the Parliamentary briefing paper.

 

I have also seen the legal opinion of former attorney general Dominic Grieve QC, which runs entirely contrary to it.

 

I know a thing or two about legal opinions (they're part and parcel of my day job, and I have requested a few myself from Counsel in my time): until their subject-matter is tested at Court, they're just that, opinions. All very informed, cogent and persuasive that they may be.

 

This opinion piece is essentially similar to my own semi-legal analysis ("semi-", because I do not specialise in family and immigration law) and much better referenced and posited than I could (though the last sentence of it is freeform opinion not related to the topic, and I'm happy to recommend that it be overlooked).

 

The sum total of it being: it's a question mark until and unless (i) the UK goes for Brexit and (ii) negotiations teams get down to brass tacks on the topic.

Edited June 2, 2016 by L00b

[El Cid]

If you're determined to turn this thread into a "tories are evil" rant, then I don't see why I should help you. Go off and ask Corbyn why he's suddenly decided to be pro-EU running against a lifetime of scepticism, the 2-faced liar.

 

That is a valid point, but wrong. The Tories are the ones that promised a definate immigration figure, Labour want free movement.

[unbeliever]

That is a valid point, but wrong. The Tories are the ones that promised a definate immigration figure, Labour want free movement.

 

Ask Corbyn why he's suddenly decided to be pro-EU running against a lifetime of scepticism, the 2-faced liar. I understand he's now stripped all his anti-EU rants from his own web-site. And in other news, I hear the chocolate ration has gone up again.

[panzer1]

So Frau Merkel has now waded in on the side of remain, not sure that was a good move by dave. The average person, not any of you well informed people on this thread obviously, blame her for opening the flood gates and causing most people's fear of migration. I know they cannot come here until they get an eu passport but they will get one eventually, and the average person thinks they can come here now.

 

The cynical amongst us may think she wants us to remain so that Germany does not have to stump up its budget surplus ( belief it was 15 billion euros last year ) to plug the hole we leave and obviously we are one of only two military states for the eu army proposed by the Germans.

 

My problem with her is that she could have given us ( let's not kid ourselves she runs/ has great influence in the eu ) some decent concessions and probably won this referendum for Dave but she played hardball. So if she loses she knows where to place the blame.

 

I think over the next 3 weeks you are going to see the threats increase from daves mates and if that is the case I think he better tread very carefully in that respect because one thing the Brits do not like is being threatened, tends to make them dig their heels in.

 

I have to be honest I still think either the vote will be rigged to remain or the eu will come back at us with a better offer. I know that both Dave and the Eu says there will not be another referendum but I just cannot see them letting us go, much as I wish them to do so.

 

Also one of merkels aides has given an interview saying the eu has no plan in place if there is a Brexit. That's interesting on two fronts, first that they obviously never took us seriously but second, and most important, the eu has not put in place any plan to mitigate all these disastrous events that will take place within the eu following Brexit. Surely they should be doing so to protect the eu specifically and the world in general from the Armageddon that us about to take place ( or is it ??).

[Shef1985]

Ask Corbyn why he's suddenly decided to be pro-EU running against a lifetime of scepticism, the 2-faced liar. I understand he's now stripped all his anti-EU rants from his own web-site. And in other news, I hear the chocolate ration has gone up again.

 

Did anyone see that Boris v Cameron doc on C4 with Michael Crick? Seems Boris is probably more pro Europe than Dave deep down.

 

I think Corbyn's silence speaks volumes. I wouldn't call him a 2 faced liar as such though because he simply doesn't say much.

 

---------- Post added 02-06-2016 at 16:20 ----------

 

So Frau Merkel has now waded in on the side of remain, not sure that was a good move by dave. The average person, not any of you well informed people on this thread obviously, blame her for opening the flood gates and causing most people's fear of migration. I know they cannot come here until they get an eu passport but they will get one eventually, and the average person thinks they can come here now.

 

The cynical amongst us may think she wants us to remain so that Germany does not have to stump up its budget surplus ( belief it was 15 billion euros last year ) to plug the hole we leave and obviously we are one of only two military states for the eu army proposed by the Germans.

 

My problem with her is that she could have given us ( let's not kid ourselves she runs/ has great influence in the eu ) some decent concessions and probably won this referendum for Dave but she played hardball. So if she loses she knows where to place the blame.

 

I think over the next 3 weeks you are going to see the threats increase from daves mates and if that is the case I think he better tread very carefully in that respect because one thing the Brits do not like is being threatened, tends to make them dig their heels in.

 

I have to be honest I still think either the vote will be rigged to remain or the eu will come back at us with a better offer. I know that both Dave and the Eu says there will not be another referendum but I just cannot see them letting us go, much as I wish them to do so.

 

Also one of merkels aides has given an interview saying the eu has no plan in place if there is a Brexit. That's interesting on two fronts, first that they obviously never took us seriously but second, and most important, the eu has not put in place any plan to mitigate all these disastrous events that will take place within the eu following Brexit. Surely they should be doing so to protect the eu specifically and the world in general from the Armageddon that us about to take place ( or is it ??).

 

Why should Europe prepare for us to Brexit when Vote Leave hasn't prepared for US if we Brexit?

[LeMaquis]

God that's a depressing statement. "Please mr mp how do you want me to decide my future, one where you'll probably be fine either way? whatever you say I'll do. "

 

Scarey.

 

It may be depressing but newspapers, television channels, companies, etc, also do it.

[JFKvsNixon]

So Frau Merkel has now waded in on the side of remain, not sure that was a good move by dave. The average person, not any of you well informed people on this thread obviously, blame her for opening the flood gates and causing most people's fear of migration. I know they cannot come here until they get an eu passport but they will get one eventually, and the average person thinks they can come here now.

 

The cynical amongst us may think she wants us to remain so that Germany does not have to stump up its budget surplus ( belief it was 15 billion euros last year ) to plug the hole we leave and obviously we are one of only two military states for the eu army proposed by the Germans.

 

My problem with her is that she could have given us ( let's not kid ourselves she runs/ has great influence in the eu ) some decent concessions and probably won this referendum for Dave but she played hardball. So if she loses she knows where to place the blame.

 

I think over the next 3 weeks you are going to see the threats increase from daves mates and if that is the case I think he better tread very carefully in that respect because one thing the Brits do not like is being threatened, tends to make them dig their heels in.

 

I have to be honest I still think either the vote will be rigged to remain or the eu will come back at us with a better offer. I know that both Dave and the Eu says there will not be another referendum but I just cannot see them letting us go, much as I wish them to do so.

 

Also one of merkels aides has given an interview saying the eu has no plan in place if there is a Brexit. That's interesting on two fronts, first that they obviously never took us seriously but second, and most important, the eu has not put in place any plan to mitigate all these disastrous events that will take place within the eu following Brexit. Surely they should be doing so to protect the eu specifically and the world in general from the Armageddon that us about to take place ( or is it ??).

 

So what concessions do you believe that Merkel could have given the UK that would have won the referendum?

[panzer1]

Well remember there is going to be a profound economic shock around the globe so would it not be sensible to take precautions. They say they can see this coming, had they seen the last financial crash approaching I am sure they would have prepared for it, would they not.

[spilldig]

Its highly unlikely to happen in normal circumstances given that virtually all 20 odd member states are against it.

 

I think it could easily happen, but if the vote is for staying in, then I hope you are right.

[panzer1]

If she had given concessions on benefits other than this rather lame brake, which is a sliding scale giving access to benefits but no one will say where the scale starts and the easy one,no entering uk without a job offer. Think that would have swung it for a lot of people.