projection Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Shoudn't something as important as this have been on a mainstream terrestrial channel? A lot of people don't have Sky. The debates were on sky news which is available on freeview and freesat. Link to the sky news Cameron debate from yesterday: I'll post the link for the Gove one when it's uploaded, if noone beats me to it. ---------- Post added 03-06-2016 at 23:27 ---------- Oh yes. Welsh Assembly Member for UKIP. That's UKIP. The party for the disenfranchised labour voter. Staffed by disgraced ex-Tories. The people I know who have gone from Labour to UKIP are mostly low skilled/payed, are UKIP actually for these people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Oh yes. Welsh Assembly Member for UKIP. That's UKIP. The party for the disenfranchised labour voter. Staffed by disgraced ex-Tories. That's a very accurate description. I bet they won't use it as a slogan though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) The people I know who have gone from Labour to UKIP are mostly low skilled/payed, are UKIP actually for these people... UKIP, the party for the disenfranchised Labour voters which used those votes to force this referendum, which they have wanted themselves since 1993, long before New Labour, lead by ex-Tory Nigel 'I am a Thatcherite' Farage and staffed by disgraced ex-Tories. Probably not. Edited June 3, 2016 by Shef1985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 The debates were on sky news which is available on freeview and freesat. Link to the sky news Cameron debate from yesterday: I'll post the link for the Gove one when it's uploaded, if noone beats me to it. ---------- Post added 03-06-2016 at 23:27 ---------- The people I know who have gone from Labour to UKIP are mostly low skilled/payed, are UKIP actually for these people... Yes Ukip is popular with that section of the electorate. A key reason is it cherry picks policies from both right and left of the political spectrum. In fact when you look at the policies it's a rational choice with it's toughness on immigration and rhetoric about tackling big business. I'm not defending Ukip by the way but it's easy to see why they can attract voters in some areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Yes Ukip is popular with that section of the electorate. A key reason is it cherry picks policies from both right and left of the political spectrum. In fact when you look at the policies it's a rational choice with it's toughness on immigration and rhetoric about tackling big business. I'm not defending Ukip by the way but it's easy to see why they can attract voters in some areas. 'It would not have been necessary to form UKIP if Margaret Thatcher had not been ousted by her party.' Nigel Farage said that. UKIP rose from the ashes of Thatcher's removal. It has its origins in 1991 and was created for one reason - to secure our exit from the EU. It became UKIP in 1993. The big rise in immigration occurred during the Blair years and turned off many Labour voters. UKIP have managed to scoop up those voters and scare the government into this referendum. UKIP existed long before New Labour, with one goal: Brexit. It did not exist in 1993 with Labour voters in mind. The Labour, Lib Dem, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Sinn Fein, SDLP and Green parties all want us to remain in the EU. So does more than half the Conservative Party, including our democratically elected Prime Minister. Vote remain. Send UKIP packing. Edited June 4, 2016 by Shef1985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
projection Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Link to the sky news debate with Michael Gove: ---------- Post added 04-06-2016 at 01:16 ---------- If we vote Brexit and the tories have a points based immigration policy in their next manifesto and pledge to spend the money saved from being in the E.U. on our public services, then I think the next general election will be a conservative landslide, sending UKIP into oblivion. But if we stay in the E.U. I can only see UKIP getting stronger and may have power or at least be a part of a coalition in 2025/30 possibly with another referendum on the E.U. Interesting times. I'm actually low skilled/payed and I'm happy and understand why people come from other country's for a better life, because at some point in time my family did and so did every other British persons descendants, because that's the main reason why people move to other country's, for a better life. But understand at the same time that too many low skilled immigrants puts mine and other peoples job opportunity's at risk when people come from country's that are happy to do jobs for minimum wage, because that pay is a lot more than they would get in their home country's, so welcome a change in immigration policy to potentially safe guard these jobs for British people because not every low skilled person can or wishes to upskill, some just don't have it in them and are like me are actually happy with their lot and like simple jobs. I understand that some British people don't want to do back breaking jobs for minimum wage, there's some jobs I wouldn't do for minimum wage, but the people who don't want to do these jobs aren't representative of all the unemployed British people who can't currently find work, so the argument that we need people from other country's to fill these jobs because lazy British people won't do them is a bit unfair to be honest. I wonder if Britain, regardless of if we stay in or leave E.U., we will be the first to negotiate selective immigration within freedom of movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Interesting times. I'm actually low skilled/payed and I'm happy and understand why people come from other country's for a better life, because at some point in time my family did and so did every other British persons descendants, because that's the main reason why people move to other country's, for a better life. Did 300,000 per year come to this country years ago? Back in the 1960s the UK population was 10,000,000 lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 He pushed all the right buttons. The arguments are familiar but deeply flawed. In fact they're so flawed you've got to wonder what the real prize is for the likes of Gove. He's surely too intelligent to keep repeating the same bad arguments. There is a strong case for Brexit, and IMO the case is being most coherently made from the left, with some of the more powerful arguments coming from some unions. The biggest problem with Corbyn's leadership is those voices are muted. This is about who governs us. Not about whether we like the limitations on national governance that EU membership sets. Left/right is irrelevant. It's not about policy, it's about who sets policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 This is about who governs us. Not about whether we like the limitations on national governance that EU membership sets. Left/right is irrelevant. It's not about policy, it's about who sets policy. I didn't say it was. I was bemoaning the low quality of the official Brexit campaign which has drowned out some solid left wing Brexit arguments, many of which I agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 This is about who governs us. 76% of the UK population did not vote for this Conservative Government. Unelected bodies like the House of Lords, do some really good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts