Shef1985 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I remember no such thing. We've been resisting further integration for as long as I can remember. It's only slowed things down. ---------- Post added 05-06-2016 at 12:53 ---------- We do not break international law lightly. I respectfully assert that you're dreaming. The EU has been a highly contentious issue since 1972 (Different name then of course). Early on it was Labour railing against it. One referendum in 1975. One now. I was born after the last one. I expect to be dead before the next one. Due to rise of UKIP, the first populist party to campaign for Brexit since the last referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Due to rise of UKIP, the first populist party to campaign for Brexit since the last referendum. Took them 25 years (started in 1991). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 We're talking about 40 years. The so called "far right" is already on the rise as demonstrated in Austria and France in particular. I'm not saying tomorrow. I'm saying within a generation it's a serious risk. It could be something else. Radicalism of any kind is generally bad. The government have made it quite clear with this referendum and with the Scotland referendum that no matter the results they shall consider the matter settled for a generation. I'm not saying they couldn't hold another referendum. I'm saying, what they're saying, which is that they won't. Show me in law where it says it's illegal to leave the EU. You can't because there isn't one. This referendum proves it. If they want a law saying no state can leave the EU that law would be vetoed! ---------- Post added 05-06-2016 at 13:06 ---------- Took them 25 years (started in 1991). 93 technically. They deposed their 91 founder because he was too intellectual.... Their rise is due to Blair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Show me in law where it says it's illegal to leave the EU. You can't because there isn't one. This referendum proves it. If they want a law saying no state can leave the EU that law would be vetoed! Most EU law-making cannot be "vetoed". Since the Lisbon treaty, most things are on QMV. But it wouldn't be a simple law. It would be the next federalising treaty. You're still thinking about the state of EU politics right now. You really, in my view, should be thinking longer term. You're arguing that because we're holding a referendum now, that proves we will always be able to hold one. Just think about that for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Most EU law-making cannot be "vetoed". Since the Lisbon treaty, most things are on QMV. But it wouldn't be a simple law. It would be the next federalising treaty. You're still thinking about the state of EU politics right now. You really, in my view, should be thinking longer term. You're arguing that because we're holding a referendum now, that proves we will always be able to hold one. Just think about that for a second. Thought about it. I'm still right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Thought about it. I'm still right. On 12th June 2008 Ireland held a referendum and voted not to approve the Lisbon treaty. They we're sent away and told to vote again. They did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 On 12th June 2008 Ireland held a referendum and voted not to approve the Lisbon treaty. They we're sent away and told to vote again. They did. I'm not Irish. This is not Ireland. Unbeliever you are wasting your time now. You have created a scenario of a far right Europe and created laws that say we cannot ever leave the EU. I simply don't agree with you and I don't know how a person as intelligent as yourself has managed to convince yourself that what you are saying is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 On 12th June 2008 Ireland held a referendum and voted not to approve the Lisbon treaty. They we're sent away and told to vote again. They did. You know that that isn't an accurate description of what happened. The EU amended the treaty, and took the Irish concerns into account then put it back up for referendum. Isn't that how democracy is meant to work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) I'm not Irish. This is not Ireland. Unbeliever you are wasting your time now. You have created a scenario of a far right Europe and created laws that say we cannot ever leave the EU. I simply don't agree with you and I don't know how a person as intelligent as yourself has managed to convince yourself that what you are saying is true. The "far right" wasn't actually my suggestion, but as much as you would like to believe it implausible it is quite clearly not. It's happened before and it's already started. Maybe it will die on the vine, but I don't know that and neither do you. There comes a stage in political integration where you have to ask permission to have a referendum on leaving. That's just part of integration. And I do not believe for one moment that the process of EU integration has stopped or that we will manage to stay out of it. I hold that opinion based on history, which is a far more reliable guide than politicians' half-promises. ---------- Post added 05-06-2016 at 13:23 ---------- You know that that isn't an accurate description of what happened. The EU amended the treaty, and took the Irish concerns into account then put it back up for referendum. Isn't that how democracy is meant to work? Nope. And if that happens with this referendum there'll be hell to pay. If that was the plan, they could have had a 3 option referendum: 1 accept, 2 reject, 3 renegotiate and ask us again. Edited June 5, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Nope. And if that happens with this referendum there'll be hell to pay. If that was the plan, they could have had a 3 option referendum: 1 accept, 2 reject, 3 renegotiate and ask us again. Remember we're were talking about the Irish referendum. If the Irish rejected the treaty for a particular reason, surely the right thing to do would be to listen to the Irish concerns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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