Shef1985 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 An EU army is an inevitability. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/27/is-there-a-secret-plan-to-create-an-eu-army Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Just to confirm, are you're asking if the people of Ireland had said that they were happy with the treaty. Whether or not I believe that the EU would have changed the treaty to something that that Irish wouldn't have been so happy with, and held the referendum again? If I've understood your question correctly, sorry for not answering it as I didn't think it was a serious question. That response says it all really. Like hell they'd have held it again if the Irish had said yes. Holding that referendum a second time because the Irish gave the "wrong" answer the first time is the most outrageous stitch up in western political history and everyone knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 That response says it all really. Like hell they'd have held it again if the Irish had said yes. Holding that referendum a second time because the Irish gave the "wrong" answer the first time is the most outrageous stitch up in western political history and everyone knows it. If they said yes first time why ask again??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 You will have to hope there is no eu army because if there is it will be the good old UK paying for it...... I thought you were a big fan of European military engineering. ---------- Post added 05-06-2016 at 18:48 ---------- What is relevant and hasn't been mentioned much is the likely cost to the UK if we remain in the EU. With places like Kosovo and Albania wanting to join. Strange that because Michael Gove did say he wanted us to be like Albania if we left the EU; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3555770/Dear-Mr-Gove-want-like-Albania-ASS-deciding-Brexit-Two-brilliant-voices-Ins-Outs.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) Unless you can demonstrate that the treaties the southern states signed up to included a clause saying they were free to leave (as the treaties we've signed up to with the EU do) then it's not a relevant example. Only the Lisbon treaty makes mention of the right to leave the union. There was no legal framework for it before that. I remain wins this vote, don't come crying to make when you wake up one morning to find that a new treaty has been ratified taking it away again. Or, come to think of it, the ECJ rules that permission is needed from the EU. That bunch have a habit of making the law up as they go along. Edited June 5, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I thought you were a big fan of European military engineering. ---------- Post added 05-06-2016 at 18:48 ---------- Strange that because Michael Gove did say he wanted us to be like Albania if we left the EU; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3555770/Dear-Mr-Gove-want-like-Albania-ASS-deciding-Brexit-Two-brilliant-voices-Ins-Outs.html He did indeed. He wants us to be just like a country that actually wants to join the EU. The irony is delicious!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzer1 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 The Germans have a navy pretty much for the same reason most countries have one, to defend their coastline. sheff I read the article prior to my last post, as stated in earlier post the UK signed up to the fledgling defence policies of the eu. The point is why have them when you are replicating NATO and why have a defence policy unless you intend to grow it. Majority of countries in Eastern Europe are under financed, equipment is old soviet stock and personnel numbers are low. So seeing the threat to eu members is from Russia where do you think an eu army may be used??, Now you will say that NATO would come to our aid. OK what about this scenario. Ukraine has taken the first step to eu membership and subsequently joins but does not join NATO ( it is not an automatic right and there is membership criteria ) also this would create high tensions with Russia also. Russia makes further territorial encroachment into Ukraine, who asks for help. NATO declines as not a member and don,t think yanks would want to go to war so far from home. That leaves the eu who have a defence policy, would they go to war, would you be happy to over Ukraine. ---------- Post added 05-06-2016 at 18:55 ---------- Maquis I have a great interest in AFVs from the inception of the idea right up to modern times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 The Germans have a navy pretty much for the same reason most countries have one, to defend their coastline. sheff I read the article prior to my last post, as stated in earlier post the UK signed up to the fledgling defence policies of the eu. The point is why have them when you are replicating NATO and why have a defence policy unless you intend to grow it. Majority of countries in Eastern Europe are under financed, equipment is old soviet stock and personnel numbers are low. So seeing the threat to eu members is from Russia where do you think an eu army may be used??, Now you will say that NATO would come to our aid. OK what about this scenario. Ukraine has taken the first step to eu membership and subsequently joins but does not join NATO ( it is not an automatic right and there is membership criteria ) also this would create high tensions with Russia also. Russia makes further territorial encroachment into Ukraine, who asks for help. NATO declines as not a member and don,t think yanks would want to go to war so far from home. That leaves the eu who have a defence policy, would they go to war, would you be happy to over Ukraine. So I have to assume they have been allowed to join the EU but not NATO? Why? Russia 'nearly' started a war with Turkey over its downed jets. Would you have been happy to go to war against Russia over Turkey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzer1 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 As I said NATO membership is not automatic, a lot of thing are taken in to account including political implications. Russia would not take kindly having NATO right up to their border with no buffer zone. No I would not have been happy to go to war with Russia over Turkey, I have very little in common with the turks and believe they should not have been allowed in NATO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 If they said yes first time why ask again??? Well yes, exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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