unbeliever Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Are you sure that you read the full report, beyond the bullet-pointed excerpt on page 1? I'm sure. I read pages 2, 3, 4 and 5 as well, then it stopped. Very thorough and well researched report clearly. I've found more convincing economic analyses on the back of a cornflakes packet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 And has unwarranted intervention overseas been notably successful on most recent occasions (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc)? It's not a zero sum game. You can be brave enough to upset Russia by respecting the wishes of the Ukraine whilst at the same time not invading an oil rich country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 And has unwarranted intervention overseas been notably successful on most recent occasions (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc)? Jeffrey, there are times where you genuinely disappoint me. How can you compare those military interventions with the political interventions against Russia post-Crimea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Jeffrey, there are times where you genuinely disappoint me. How can you compare those military interventions with the political interventions against Russia post-Crimea? You used the word 'military'. I did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) No, it wasn't. The whole notion of that idea is so ludicrous that it is bordering slander. The Ukrainians have been wanting to move away from Russia as the 'motherstate' ever since the inception of the state. For some reason they were fed up with having corrupt politicians. Remember the Orange Revolution? It is all related to what is going on now. Putin seized the moment of weakness with Yanukovich to force his way into the Crimea. Anybody who claims this is the EU's fault is just being obtuse on purpose. We wrote it down so it would be libel. Ukraine is deeply divided over the issue. Clearly the former Ukranian government and the Russian government have behaved extremely badly. But we're supposed to be the good guys. This was all entirely foreseeable and the EU are either dumb as hell or they didn't care. They've not committed any crime, but they've acted extremely foolishly. The diplomacy now being attempted to resolve all this mess should have been undertaken in advance, then everything could have been sorted without a shot fired. Tell you what, let's send the EU over to Taiwan, they'll have the Chinese army in the capital by breakfast. It'll be okay though because the fault will technically be with China. Edited June 17, 2015 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 No, it wasn't. The whole notion of that idea is so ludicrous that it is bordering slander. The Ukrainians have been wanting to move away from Russia as the 'motherstate' ever since the inception of the state. For some reason they were fed up with having corrupt politicians. Remember the Orange Revolution? It is all related to what is going on now. Putin seized the moment of weakness with Yanukovich to force his way into the Crimea. Anybody who claims this is the EU's fault is just being obtuse on purpose. Or not remember this, http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/03/28/nigel-farage-is-right-it-was-the-eu-not-russia-which-provoked-the-ukraine-crisis/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 And has unwarranted intervention overseas been notably successful on most recent occasions (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc)? Ask Putin,he's the one that intervened in Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'd have thought that the free market capitalists would have been overjoyed about the Ukraine turning towards a Western influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 We wrote it down so it would be libel. Ukraine is deeply divided over the issue. Clearly the former Ukranian government and the Russian government have behaved extremely badly. But we're supposed to be the good guys. This was all entirely foreseeable and the EU are either dumb as hell or they didn't care. They've not committed any crime, but they've acted extremely foolishly. The diplomacy now being attempted to resolve all this mess should have been undertaken in advance, then everything could have been sorted without a shot fired. Tell you what, let's send the EU over to Taiwan, they'll have the Chinese army in the capital by breakfast. It'll be okay though because the fault will technically be with China. What have the EU done wrong?..........why wouldn't a sovereign state be allowed to conduct its own affairs without threat of military action?...........what exactly is Russias problem with the EU and Ukraine?.........according to Russia and Putin,they can now invade any country in order to protect Russians living under any threat in that country,that Putin percieves to be a threat,in order to eliminate the threat......is the rest of the world and Europe supposed to not react to that?.Ukraine is divided because Russia and its proxies divided it,none of which would have happened if Putin had not intervened. ---------- Post added 17-06-2015 at 17:04 ---------- Or not remember this, http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/03/28/nigel-farage-is-right-it-was-the-eu-not-russia-which-provoked-the-ukraine-crisis/ That's why Farage is a Putin appeaser,anti EU and a friend of Russian television......they want to hear more anti EU views,no matter that Putin had planned the invasion and annexation of Crimea for months in advance,and that the people of Ukraine wanted EU values not Russian values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 What have the EU done wrong?..........why wouldn't a sovereign state be allowed to conduct its own affairs without threat of military action?...........what exactly is Russias problem with the EU and Ukraine?.........according to Russia and Putin,they can now invade any country in order to protect Russians living under any threat in that country,that Putin percieves to be a threat,in order to eliminate the threat......is the rest of the world and Europe supposed to not react to that?.Ukraine is divided because Russia and its proxies divided it,none of which would have happened if Putin had not intervened. ---------- Post added 17-06-2015 at 17:04 ---------- That's why Farage is a Putin appeaser,anti EU and a friend of Russian television......they want to hear more anti EU views,no matter that Putin had planned the invasion and annexation of Crimea for months in advance,and that the people of Ukraine wanted EU values not Russian values. I think you'll find the EU had everything planned before Putin stepped in, http://www.eeas.europa.eu/ukraine/csp/02_06_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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