Tomjames Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) I would say so on the whole..wouldn't you..? originally 9 members of the common market & we are saying 2 of those members are nearly bankrupt? Ireland went bust. Interestingly the PM was saying the same thing about economic uncertainty remainers are saying now. Edited June 9, 2016 by Tomjames H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 originally 9 members of the common market & we are saying 2 of those members are nearly bankrupt? Not sure what your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 so, the two reasons I would consider leaving, namely: 1) stopping unskilled immigration and 2) pouring more money into the NHS instead of the EU are now unlikely to happen in the event of a Brexit, am I correct? No one knows, although plenty of people will have an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomjames Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Not sure what your point is? The 9 members were close together. We have 28 members very far apart now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The sovereignty argument is fake. Every time it is trotted out its the same dog whistle lies around losing sovereignty, and being subjugated to an EU superstate. It's nonsense. Neither of those things have ever happened and won't ever happen because the EU doesn't work that way and won't ever work that way, at least where the UK is concerned. The leave campaign should be honest and make it clear that what they don't like is the concept of pooled sovereignty and shared decision making, and that neither of those things mean loss of sovereignty or submission. They never will though because the dog whistle is easier to use. The economic argument is real and the threat is real. It is the most important thing, only people don't realise it yet. Their heads have been turned by the immigration argument and the very weird sovereignty arguments. History is littered with people who took a principled (sometimes misguided) stand and lost the shirt off their back and the roof over their head. Be clear and honest: the leave campaign is asking tens of millions of people to make that stand (on a dishonest premise) and that the economic consequences are potentially significant. Actually its the people that asked for the referendum, most of those intending to vote out have had that opinion for years, the out campaigners are just giving those people the voice they haven't had for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Actually its the people that asked for the referendum, most of those intending to vote out have had that opinion for years. Quite right. I know I have. And long before the last several years of high net immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The 9 members were close together. We have 28 members very far apart now. I'm not sure how that answers my question..ie do you think the EU has achieved the aims set out in the '74 pamphlet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomjames Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Can we say with confidence the EU will reach its aims with 28 member states & growing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Do you have a principled argument for remain or not? He's already told us that his only reason for voting in because he doesn't truth the Tories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 To those who said all we voted for in 74/5 was a common trade area..this is an extract from the government pamphlet issued at the time: The aims of the Common Market are: To bring together the peoples of Europe. To raise living standards and improve working conditions. To promote growth and boost world trade. To help the poorer regions of Europe and the rest of the world. To help maintain peace and freedom Looks like we voted for more than just a big market place.. Here's the link to the pamphlet itself . http://civitas.org.uk/content/files/1975ReferendumGov.pdf Are you trying to say that people voted 1n 1975 for the Europe the way it is now? Why did it change from EEC to EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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