unbeliever Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 It's not true that we have surrendered control to the EU. We have chosen to cooperate and share decision making. This I agree with. It was a bad idea. Hopefully we've changed our minds. Pooling sovereignty is not thd same as losing sovereignty. I know you deliberately don't want to concede that point for obvious reasons, but that's the way it is. Yes it is. Sovereignty means having the final say. If you "pool" it, you don't have it any more, as you no longer have the final say. It's over there in the pool. Therefore "pooling" is a silly euphemism. Immigration is a major issues, the key one for a lot of people. There's some polling on it somewhere. I know. It's just not what it's about for me. And I don't like being told otherwise. As for whether I have a principled stance on this of course I do, it's just that it's built on different beliefs to yours. We don't have to agree. Excellent. Then what is the principled argument for remain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 This I agree with. It was a bad idea. Hopefully we've changed our minds. Yes it is. Sovereignty means having the final say. If you "pool" it, you don't have it any more, as you no longer have the final say. It's over there in the pool. I know. It's just not what it's about for me. And I don't like being told otherwise. Excellent. Then what is the principled argument for remain? Once we get our sovereignty and democracy back which of the EU handed down edicts would you like to see rescinded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ez8004 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 So Warren East know what's best for you, and you don't. My opinion is that Warren East knows what's best for Warren East and that might not be what best for you. If your employment is dependent on his company. Then yes, he would obviously know what is important compared to so other average person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Once we get our sovereignty and democracy back which of the EU handed down edicts would you like to see rescinded? We can start with everything related to energy. I dare say a fair few on the coasts would like to see the end of the CFP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 We can start with everything related to energy. I dare say a fair few on the coasts would like to see the end of the CFP. They will probably be well happy right up until they fish all their stock, just like the Canadians did on their East coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 They will probably be well happy right up until they fish all their stock, just like the Canadians did on their East coast. Right because that's what happened before the CFP. Throwing dead fish back into the sea sorted it I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Right because that's what happened before the CFP. Throwing dead fish back into the sea sorted it I suppose. Maybe the EU thinks that seeing the dead fish will teach the other fish a lesson? The entire dead-fish-throwing-back thing thing is loopy. People might be starving; yet dead fish are thrown back for being the wrong size, or breed, or quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 This I agree with. It was a bad idea. Hopefully we've changed our minds. Yes it is. Sovereignty means having the final say. If you "pool" it, you don't have it any more, as you no longer have the final say. It's over there in the pool. Therefore "pooling" is a silly euphemism. I know. It's just not what it's about for me. And I don't like being told otherwise. Excellent. Then what is the principled argument for remain? In a situation where sovereignty is pooled we get an equal say as every other country. Generally as a big country most things will be in our favour. Some won't but hey ho on balance we benefit Sovereignty is only pooled for some policy areas, not all. We retain a veto on many policy areas. This explains it well: http://oxfordindex.oup.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100336931 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Maybe the EU thinks that seeing the dead fish will teach the other fish a lesson? The entire dead-fish-throwing-back thing thing is loopy. People might be starving; yet dead fish are thrown back for being the wrong size, or breed, or quantity. And that's something that needs changing urgently. Surely we should stay in the EU and change it from within? Whats going to happen if we leave? Our dozen or so fishing boats stop doing it and we watch the Spanish et keep doing it outside our waters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 And that's something that needs changing urgently. Surely we should stay in the EU and change it from within? Whats going to happen if we leave? Our dozen or so fishing boats stop doing it and we watch the Spanish et keep doing it outside our waters? Why do we only have a dozen or so fishing boats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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