Anna B Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 How did politicians allow us to get into this situation? We were warned about it before we signed some agreement back in the 90's (can't remember what it was called, but internet was full of it.) Once again it comes down to the power of an organisation which is corrupt, undemocratic, unremovable, unreformable, holds all the cards, and will brook no renegotiation. It isn't going to change. Why should it? That is a very powerful, very dangerous organisation. It's clear Germany are doing extremely well out of it of course. Do we allow it to continue to bully us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) Doesn't make much sense to me.Didn't think it would. Hey-ho. It's clear Germany are doing extremely well out of it of course.So has the UK, if you'll drop the blinkers for a minute and compare its situation in 1973 to now. Do we allow it to continue to bully us?Neither the EU, nor Germany, France, Italy <etc.> are bullying the UK. The UK is threatening to ask for its cake and eating it from them. Does it really surprise you that much that they'd disagree with the notion? They will bully the UK, but only if it Brexits. After all, if you're giving someone the rods, do you expect a kiss or a smack in the gob? Edited June 10, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Who says there is to be a massive negative cost? None of the experts who the remainers tell us to trust. What percentage of GDP (ideally per capita) over how many years? Give me a directly elected overload over an EU commissioner any day. ---------- Post added 10-06-2016 at 14:00 ---------- Doesn't make much sense to me. The UK runs a large, persistent deficit with the EU including services. Why don't you think there will be a big economic jolt? I cant work out your logic. Markets love stability and certainty and we'll be in a situation of anything but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) Why don't you think there will be a big economic jolt? I cant work out your logic. Markets love stability and certainty and we'll be in a situation of anything but. Because even the analysis put forward by the (partly EU funded) experts that the remainers have been bleating on about all this time doesn't say so. And I must emphasise that if any of the supposed loss in GDP growth is associated with slowing population growth, then it doesn't count. Just to illustrate that point, you would surely not think it better to live in a country of 100 million people with a GDP of 10 trillion, than a country of 10 million people with a GDP of 5 trillion. I realise those numbers are not correct for this situation. It's only an illustration. I suppose it comes down to how much sovereignty is worth to you. Some on here clearly think quite differently about sovereignty to me, and don't see "pooling" it as a loss. That's fair enough, but it's not acceptable to me. And it remains quite possible, if we seize this opportunity and use it wisely, that we'll actually be better off. ---------- Post added 10-06-2016 at 14:42 ---------- How did politicians allow us to get into this situation? We were warned about it before we signed some agreement back in the 90's (can't remember what it was called, but internet was full of it.) Once again it comes down to the power of an organisation which is corrupt, undemocratic, unremovable, unreformable, holds all the cards, and will brook no renegotiation. It isn't going to change. Why should it? That is a very powerful, very dangerous organisation. It's clear Germany are doing extremely well out of it of course. Do we allow it to continue to bully us? Coming back to your earlier point about more women in power. I would love to see you take over for Corbyn right now. So many principled people inclined toward socialism, such as yourself, seem to see this matter much as I do. Of course so does Corbyn. I still can't figure out what he's playing at. Edited June 10, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Because even the analysis put forward by the (partly EU funded) experts that the remainers have been bleating on about all this time doesn't say so. And I must emphasise that if any of the supposed loss in GDP growth is associated with slowing population growth, then it doesn't count. Just to illustrate that point, you would surely not think it better to live in a country of 100 million people with a GDP of 10 trillion, than a country of 10 million people with a GDP of 5 trillion. I realise those numbers are not correct for this situation. It's only an illustration. I suppose it comes down to how much sovereignty is worth to you. Some on here clearly think quite differently about sovereignty to me, and don't see "pooling" it as a loss. That's fair enough, but it's not acceptable to me. And it remains quite possible, if we seize this opportunity and use it wisely, that we'll actually be better off. ---------- Post added 10-06-2016 at 14:42 ---------- Coming back to your earlier point about more women in power. I would love to see you take over for Corbyn right now. So many principled people inclined toward socialism, such as yourself, seem to see this matter much as I do. Of course so does Corbyn. I still can't figure out what he's playing at. So youre trusting our government to "take an opportunity and use it wisely". Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) So youre trusting our government to "take an opportunity and use it wisely". Good luck with that. That's up to us. We choose them. Unlike the EU commission. The remainers have often cited the CBI predictions. This is not a group which I consider neutral or representative, but they are not dumb so let's look at what they predict. http://news.cbi.org.uk/news/leaving-eu-would-cause-a-serious-shock-to-uk-economy-new-pwc-analysis/leaving-the-eu-implications-for-the-uk-economy/ Average real UK GDP per capita in 2030 would, however, be around 25% to 28% higher in 2030 than in 2015 in the EU exit scenarios, as compared to an estimated 29% increase with continued EU membership. Oh I'm so scared. How will we survive. Edited June 10, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossdog Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 How did politicians allow us to get into this situation? We were warned about it before we signed some agreement back in the 90's (can't remember what it was called, but internet was full of it.) Once again it comes down to the power of an organisation which is corrupt, undemocratic, unremovable, unreformable, holds all the cards, and will brook no renegotiation. It isn't going to change. Why should it? That is a very powerful, very dangerous organisation. It's clear Germany are doing extremely well out of it of course. Do we allow it to continue to bully us? ........believe it or not,there seems to be people who want to be bullied by the Germans!...they tried it physically twice and failed,now they are doing it economically! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 ........believe it or not,there seems to be people who want to be bullied by the Germans!...they tried it physically twice and failed,now they are doing it economically! If you think we're being bullied in a small group how on earth will we manage when taking on the rest of the world on our own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroout23 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 looking at the poll result on here at the moment seems to sum up the state of the likely vote? almost 2/3 in favour of leaving! its building and lets hope last minute in favour of "leave" dont get cold feet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 How did politicians allow us to get into this situation? We were warned about it before we signed some agreement back in the 90's (can't remember what it was called, but internet was full of it.) Once again it comes down to the power of an organisation which is corrupt, undemocratic, unremovable, unreformable, holds all the cards, and will brook no renegotiation. It isn't going to change. Why should it? That is a very powerful, very dangerous organisation. It's clear Germany are doing extremely well out of it of course. Do we allow it to continue to bully us? Im not that sure theyre doing THAT much better than us. How much did they lend Greece compared with us for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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