Nagel Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I know his public persona is abrasive and right wing, but Peter Hitchens is never a dull read and is more considered and intelligent than most people give him credit for. For instance he's in favour of re-nationalising the railways and utilities and hates David Cameron: I suspect the whole thing has gone utterly wrong, an unsurprising result of what was in any case a wholly irresponsible promise made by one of the most unprincipled and inexperienced people ever to hold the post of head of government. Full article: http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2016/06/the-leave-campaign-may-well-be-winning-.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Or a tragic story of what happens when socialism is tried. Again. True Socialism requires isolationism. There's no question of this happening in the UK. This referendum is not about that. You didn't even read the article, and posted a load of rubbish based on your prejudices. The decline was nothing to do with socialism, but rather terrible decisions made by capitalist interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 You didn't even read the article, and posted a load of rubbish based on your prejudices. Paywall. Argentina has collapsed because of socialism. One article doesn't change that. Wanting to leave a nascent super-state masquerading as a protectionist trading bloc doesn't mean you favour isolationism. Quite the reverse in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) Paywall. Argentina has collapsed because of socialism. One article doesn't change that. Wanting to leave a nascent super-state masquerading as a protectionist trading bloc doesn't mean you favour isolationism. Quite the reverse in fact. Stop being ridiculous. It has never been a truly socialist country. If anything much of its recent history was dominated a a right wing military junta The long decline was baked-in by capitalist interests long before the kirchners arrived on the scene. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/082515/argentina-socialist-country.asp From one of the world's top 10 richest countries to basket case. The point I'm making is that our continued position as a top economy is not assured. Edited June 12, 2016 by I1L2T3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Stop being ridiculous. It has never been a truly socialist country. If anything much of its recent history was dominated a a right wing military junta The long decline was baked-in by capitalist interests long before the kirchners arrived on the scene. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/082515/argentina-socialist-country.asp From one of the world's top 10 richest countries to basket case. The point I'm making is that our continued position as a top economy is not assured. Oh yes. This again. They fall short of implying absolute communism therefore they're not socialist in your view. Fine then. Too much socialism, too close to socialism. Call it what you want. Socialism crippled Argentina. Wanting to leave a nascent super-state masquerading as a protectionist trading bloc doesn't mean you favour isolationism. Quite the reverse in fact. Trying to like Argentina's situation to the UK post-Brexit is an exercise in preposterousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Argentina has collapsed because of socialism.That would be Venezuela, methinks you've got your Latin American geography mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 That would be Venezuela, methinks you've got your Latin American geography mixed up. Oh wow. You found somebody worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) Oh wow. You found somebody worse.No, I pointed you to the correct Latin American state actually failed by socialist policies Argentina wasn't, its perennial debt problem killed it, time and again. Just like Greece, closer to home. Populist governments never act as the clean-up crew, they have a vested interest in keeping people angry at their lot, with such anger suitably directed at anyone but the State and the populists in charge, all the while dispending the odd popular policy or measure to stoke their popularity. It's a self-reinforcing vicious circle. It's exactly what UKIP, Leave and the harder right parties in Continental Europe are doing. Edited June 12, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Why is this even party political? Isn't it a free vote, like Corbyn did with Trident? Mr unbeliever seems to think that the EU is a socialist super state in the making, so although I agree with your point, perhaps that is why more Labour than Conservative are in favour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 No, I pointed you to the correct Latin American state actually failed by socialist policies I think it's just a question of perspective. Nationalisation of the oil industry was, by any reasonable definition, a socialist act. There are also various other nationalised industries, pretty much the same ones which crippled the Uk economy in the '60s and '70s. Wanting to leave a nascent super-state masquerading as a protectionist trading bloc doesn't mean you favour isolationism. Quite the reverse in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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