EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[El Cid]

 

Nationalisation of the oil industry was, by any reasonable definition, a socialist act. There are also various other nationalised industries, pretty much the same ones which crippled the Uk economy in the '60s and '70s.

 

 

Both Labour and Conservative in the 1970s came to the conclusion that Britain needed to enter the European Economic Community (EEC) in order to revive its economy.

[unbeliever]

Mr unbeliever seems to think that the EU is a socialist super state in the making, so although I agree with your point, perhaps that is why more Labour than Conservative are in favour?

 

I said protectionist. I don't remember saying socialist.

 

The rather scary presidential election in Austria notwithstanding, for the moment the EU is corporatist. A kind of moderately corrupt, statist moderatism which is not ideologically aligned with either the bulk of Labour or the bulk of Conservative supporters in the UK. In a way, they've taken the worse of capitalism and the worst of socialism and created a Chimera.

 

This is about self-government for the UK people for the next several decades. Anna B, you and I will argue about what should be UK government policy post-Brexit, and together with the rest of the UK people we will determine UK government policy. That's how it should be.

 

---------- Post added 12-06-2016 at 11:47 ----------

 

Both Labour and Conservative in the 1970s came to the conclusion that Britain needed to enter the European Economic Community (EEC) in order to revive its economy.

 

Labour was more split on the EEC in 1975 than the Conservative are now.

There was no consensus.

Tony Benn, who I suspect we can all agree was a giant of the so called "left" in the UK and was a man who I had the greatest respect for, campaigned hard to stay out at the time and maintained that position throughout his life. Many like minded people thought similarly, and many still do.

Edited June 12, 2016 by unbeliever

[I1L2T3]

I think it's just a question of perspective.

 

Nationalisation of the oil industry was, by any reasonable definition, a socialist act. There are also various other nationalised industries, pretty much the same ones which crippled the Uk economy in the '60s and '70s.

 

Wanting to leave a nascent super-state masquerading as a protectionist trading bloc doesn't mean you favour isolationism.

Quite the reverse in fact.

 

You're still missing the key points.

 

Whether or not you believe socialism ruined Argentina's position as a leading global economy, the point is that bad decisions can destroy an economy's position in the global pecking order.

 

Another point is that our position is a top economic power is not assured if we Brexit. Argentina is an example if how it can all go very wrong when capitalist interests bet on the wrong horses.

 

Everything that happened after the 40s and 50s in Argentina was reaction on reaction to a terminal decline.

 

Are we heading for the same terminal decline if we Brexit?

[panzer1]

Just read osbornes two page spread in the Sunday sun, think some one ought to tell him how to give an interview. Osborne says he will have to cut defence by 1.5 billion, that's the cost of one and half of the new class of destroyers. It's then pointed out that over lastb5 years he has cut defence budget by ONE FIFTH and axed 20,000 jobs, so business as usual in mod if we Brexit.

Cameron to take a back seat due to putting off labour voters.

Sunday politics on bbc 1, reporter in Europe parliament spoke with a number of people there including one that openly admitted that the eu budget,which normally is published a few weeks ago, has been delayed due to Brexit, why is that then, anybody would think it is going up.

A green mep from some eu body openly admitted that policies were being delayed until after Brexit because they did not want to give ammunition for uk press as these policies may be viewed in a bad light.

So basically the eu are holding back bad news because they know it would push more to brexit, what a set of under hand devious gits, they and Cameron are well suited.

[JFKvsNixon]

Just read osbornes two page spread in the Sunday sun, think some one ought to tell him how to give an interview. Osborne says he will have to cut defence by 1.5 billion, that's the cost of one and half of the new class of destroyers. It's then pointed out that over lastb5 years he has cut defence budget by ONE FIFTH and axed 20,000 jobs, so business as usual in mod if we Brexit.

Cameron to take a back seat due to putting off labour voters.

Sunday politics on bbc 1, reporter in Europe parliament spoke with a number of people there including one that openly admitted that the eu budget,which normally is published a few weeks ago, has been delayed due to Brexit, why is that then, anybody would think it is going up.

A green mep from some eu body openly admitted that policies were being delayed until after Brexit because they did not want to give ammunition for uk press as these policies may be viewed in a bad light.

So basically the eu are holding back bad news because they know it would push more to brexit, what a set of under hand devious gits, they and Cameron are well suited.

 

So you accept that the the last financial crisis ended up putting the military under stress due to funding problems. So how do you think that the financial crisis that'll follow Brexit effect will our military? I think that we could kiss goodbye to our aircraft carriers in the event of Brexit.

 

Also wouldn't it make sense for the EU to see what happens in our referendum before forming any plans that they have, that's just common sense.

[unbeliever]

You're still missing the key points.

 

Whether or not you believe socialism ruined Argentina's position as a leading global economy, the point is that bad decisions can destroy an economy's position in the global pecking order.

 

Another point is that our position is a top economic power is not assured if we Brexit. Argentina is an example if how it can all go very wrong when capitalist interests bet on the wrong horses.

 

Everything that happened after the 40s and 50s in Argentina was reaction on reaction to a terminal decline.

 

Are we heading for the same terminal decline if we Brexit?

 

 

Quite clearly not.

Are you now rejecting the "expert" CBI analysis which states that between now and 2030 we'll grow by 25-28% in terms of GDP./capita if we leave, or 29% of we stay?

 

---------- Post added 12-06-2016 at 12:51 ----------

 

So you accept that the the last financial crisis ended up putting the military under stress due to funding problems. So how do you think that the financial crisis that'll follow Brexit effect will our military? I think that we could kiss goodbye to our aircraft carriers in the event of Brexit.

 

Also wouldn't it make sense for the EU to see what happens in our referendum before forming any plans that they have, that's just common sense.

 

There's no prediction of a "crisis" if we leave.

The experts are predicting, at worse, the shallowest recession since 1956.

At worst we're looking at 2 quarters of barely negative growth, if that.

There's no crisis, no disaster, even if you use the remainians preferred analysis.

Edited June 12, 2016 by unbeliever

[TheChet]

Quite clearly not.

Are you now rejecting the "expert" CBI analysis which states that between now and 2030 we'll grow by 25-28% in terms of GDP./capita if we leave, or 29% of we stay?

 

---------- Post added 12-06-2016 at 12:51 ----------

 

 

There's no prediction of a "crisis" if we leave.

The experts are predicting, at worse, the shallowest recession since 1956.

At worst we're looking at 2 quarters of barely negative growth, if that.

There's no crisis, no disaster, even if you use the remainians preferred analysis.

 

So, why do SO MANY experts want us to remain?

 

If there will be little effect and you're right about sovereignty why isn't everyone saying leave leave leave!!

 

You think the Archbishop of Canterbury is pro-big business?

Peter Higgs?

[L00b]

There's no prediction of a "crisis" if we leave.

The experts are predicting, at worse, the shallowest recession since 1956.

At worst we're looking at 2 quarters of barely negative growth, if that.

There's no crisis, no disaster, even if you use the remainians preferred analysis.

The worst prediction is a 9.5% hit on the UK's GDP.

 

That's not "shallow", by any stretches of meaning.

 

It's a very hard landing from a very tall cliff, and there would have to be some critical life support and reconstructive surgery involved after it.

 

I'll link this historical GDP tracker for context, which usefully indicates the 2008 hit on it for comparison.

 

But hey, as you mentioned the 'worst prediction', indeed that is the worst prediction by experts.

 

So the economic hit would probably be less than that.

 

Place your bets

Edited June 12, 2016 by L00b

[JFKvsNixon]

There's no prediction of a "crisis" if we leave.

The experts are predicting, at worse, the shallowest recession since 1956.

At worst we're looking at 2 quarters of barely negative growth, if that.

There's no crisis, no disaster, even if you use the remainians preferred analysis.

 

A financial downturn during a time when we're already borrowing loads, already cutting services, with the international financial markets losing confidence in our economy, and the international ramifications of Brexit.

 

Every piece of the jigsaw is there, but you can't seem to be able to put them together.

[I1L2T3]

Quite clearly not.

Are you now rejecting the "expert" CBI analysis which states that between now and 2030 we'll grow by 25-28% in terms of GDP./capita if we leave, or 29% of we stay?

 

---------- Post added 12-06-2016 at 12:51 ----------

 

 

There's no prediction of a "crisis" if we leave.

The experts are predicting, at worse, the shallowest recession since 1956.

At worst we're looking at 2 quarters of barely negative growth, if that.

There's no crisis, no disaster, even if you use the remainians preferred analysis.

 

There are loads of predictions of crisis. Practically every major economic organisation is predicting it. Where have you been hiding?

 

2 quarters of negative growth? The shallowest recession since 1956? That is all very precise, and highly unlikely. Will every voter be given a free unicorn too?