tinfoilhat Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Yes it has. It has changed into a world where you don't have to join a massive trading bloc to get free trade. ---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 11:19 ---------- Is that it? Joining something new with everyone else like the ERM (or not joining something like the euro) is not same as leaving a body which by your admission has massive implications on our country for the last 40 years. Better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Joining something new with everyone else like the ERM (or not joining something like the euro) is not same as leaving body which by your admission has massive implications on our country for the last 40 years. Better? Much. Problem is that the report shows that the big "expert" organisations are just guessing on these matters, much like everybody else. They are emphatically not telling us what the future holds. Maybe their guesses are better informed. But they're still almost as likely to be wrong as right. ---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 11:27 ---------- Genuine question..which other country of 60 million goes it alone? Nobody is talking about isolationism. There are far smaller countries which are not in supra-national governmental organisations, and far larger ones. Are you asking me to name a country with exactly our population which is not so integrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) What seismic shift is this? Possible small tariffs on a few goods and services on which the EU depends more than us. Hyperbole again, designed to scare us. Not scared. When we joined the EEC in 1973 it was in a world of protectionism and high tariffs which was generally hostile to international trade. That time has long since passed. You're worrying about problems that don't exist. As I and some others are manifestly trying to engage with a brick wall suffering a bad case of the denials here, I'm sooo sorely to tempted to say "I agree with all you say, unbeliever, here's to a Brexit win!" and just bide my time until the inevitable aftermath, only to visit some well earned Schadenfreude on you and your mates Problem is, like last time with 2008, I'd also end up paying for it, without much chances of getting the Brexiters alone to pay for their own breakage So I won't be saying that Nobody is talking about isolationism. There are far smaller countries which are not in supra-national governmental organisations, and far larger ones. Are you asking me to name a country with exactly our population which is not so integrated? I believe (and am of course remaining open to correction) that truman is asking which other country of 60 millions in the global top 10 is not part of a supranational trading club Edited June 13, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Much. Problem is that the report shows that the big "expert" organisations are just guessing on these matters, much like everybody else. They are emphatically not telling us what the future holds. Maybe their guesses are better informed. But they're still almost as likely to be wrong as right. ---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 11:27 ---------- Nobody is talking about isolationism. There are far smaller countries which are not in supra-national governmental organisations, and far larger ones. Are you asking me to name a country with exactly our population which is not so integrated? Look at what caused the last recession - not war, pestilence or a lack of natural resources, it was a few coked up young men in the states and in the city of London with effectivly the wrong numbers on a computer screen. I don't need the Cameron, the cbi, a bloke who makes diggers or anyone else to tell me that if we leave it will hurt economically because the markets will collectively soil themselves for starters. Will it be all milk and honey afterwards? Maybe but it will hurt a lot to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Nobody is talking about isolationism. So we'd join another "club"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 So we'd join another "club"? No. No club. Free trade as a sovereign nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 No. No club. Free trade as a sovereign nation.No WTO and its rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 What seismic shift is this? Possible small tariffs on a few goods and services on which the EU depends more than us. Hyperbole again, designed to scare us. Not scared. When we joined the EEC in 1973 it was in a world of protectionism and high tariffs which was generally hostile to international trade. That time has long since passed. You're worrying about problems that don't exist. If you genuinely think the eu just boils down to a few tariffs, why all the fuss? Stay as we are then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 No. No club. Free trade as a sovereign nation. So no strings attached free trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 As I and some others are manifestly trying to engage with a brick wall suffering a bad case of the denials here, I'm sooo sorely to tempted to say "I agree with all you say, unbeliever, here's to a Brexit win!" and just bide my time until the inevitable aftermath, only to visit some well earned Schadenfreude on you and your mates Problem is, like last time with 2008, I'd also end up paying for it, without much chances of getting the Brexiters alone to pay for their own breakage So I won't be saying that I'm sorry for any individual suffering, but that's creative destruction for you. I believe (and am of course remaining open to correction) that truman is asking which other country of 60 millions in the global top 10 is not part of a supranational trading club I don't believe there is another country with a population exactly the same as ours. I'm content to participate in this comparison, but I need to know the selection criteria. ---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 11:42 ---------- So no strings attached free trade? Free trade with minimal strings, which does not involve us in a massive and ill-conceived project to convert a continent of diverse nations into a single state. ---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 11:43 ---------- If you genuinely think the eu just boils down to a few tariffs, why all the fuss? Stay as we are then. Supra-national government (much less than now, but still) might have been a price worth paying for some in the high tariff world of 1975. Not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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