MobileB Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I've said this multiple times. Only the 6-7% of Uk businesses which do trade with the EU would have to comply with EU regulations and even then only on those aspects of their businesses which relate to EU trade. There's a world of difference between this, and a regulatory regime which affects all business activity in the whole country. And as I have said before, the supply chain also has to comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 If we vote to remain I fear you a right. Evidenced by what little Cameron was able to achieve earlier in the year. He was only asking for baby steps, and he got laughed at. But you know what, I actually think that if we vote to leave then reform is possible. We call their bluff as it were. Some of the EU bigwigs have been making more reflective comments recently, that perhaps they have gone a bit power crazy and lost sight what the EU should be. Maybe some of these comments are a result of the odds on a leave victory shortening, but hey ho ... Anyway, don't paint me surprised if we vote leave and then suddenly the door is opened up to sensible reform and we don't end up leaving. Voting to leave in the expectation of gaining EU reform, would be incredibly risky, though. I don't know if any are daft enough to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo77 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 If we vote to remain I fear you a right. Evidenced by what little Cameron was able to achieve earlier in the year. He was only asking for baby steps, and he got laughed at. But you know what, I actually think that if we vote to leave then reform is possible. We call their bluff as it were. Some of the EU bigwigs have been making more reflective comments recently, that perhaps they have gone a bit power crazy and lost sight what the EU should be. Maybe some of these comments are a result of the odds on a leave victory shortening, but hey ho ... Anyway, don't paint me surprised if we vote leave and then suddenly the door is opened up to sensible reform and we don't end up leaving. Cameron was in no position to make demands. It would take people working together. Different countries coming together to make a better Europe for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 So you reckon we'd be able to vote to leave and then not leave? Absolutely! We'll renegotiate (probably with some new heads of state) and have another vote! ---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 17:28 ---------- Voting to leave in the expectation of gaining EU reform, would be incredibly risky, though. I don't know if any are daft enough to try it. If you look hard enough that's what Boris Johnson has effectively said he wants to happen if memory serves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) Absolutely! We'll renegotiate (probably with some new heads of state) and have another vote! ---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 17:28 ---------- If you look hard enough that's what Boris Johnson has effectively said he wants to happen if memory serves. He's deluded enough to think it, or just disingenuous enough to claim it. ---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 17:38 ---------- Cameron was in no position to make demands. It would take people working together. Different countries coming together to make a better Europe for all. Which is the purpose of the EU. Always better achieved by negotiation around common interests than by grandstanding. The problem is that politicians have to speak to both their constituents/electorate and to the world at large, and it is rare for these expectations to be the same. Cameron went much too far in his claims to the people of the UK. He talked tough, but that attitude doesn't work in the real world when you need to negotiate. Edited June 13, 2016 by Eater Sundae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 If we vote to remain I fear you a right. Evidenced by what little Cameron was able to achieve earlier in the year. He was only asking for baby steps, and he got laughed at. But you know what, I actually think that if we vote to leave then reform is possible. We call their bluff as it were. Some of the EU bigwigs have been making more reflective comments recently, that perhaps they have gone a bit power crazy and lost sight what the EU should be. Maybe some of these comments are a result of the odds on a leave victory shortening, but hey ho ... Anyway, don't paint me surprised if we vote leave and then suddenly the door is opened up to sensible reform and we don't end up leaving. Once we vote leave in a referendum, the government best damn well leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milquetoast1 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Voting to leave in the expectation of gaining EU reform, would be incredibly risky, though. I don't know if any are daft enough to try it. Reform is not on the ballot paper, so there is no risk of expectations. I'm merely pointing out the possibility. In fact the possibilities as I see them are as follows: A. Vote Remain 1. As we are, no change. We are in the EU forever. B. Vote Leave 1. As we are, no change. MPs may just decide to ignore the will of the people and use their majority preference to keep UK in single market. 2. Government might plan for exit, but it might be slow and in due course they might just say sorry can't do. We are in the EU forever. 3. The EU has a rethink on sovereignty issues for EU members. We might get genuine reform, and with or without another referendum, we stay. 4. Government plans for exit, and in due course we leave. Of course the true messy nature of these possibilities will not be communicated to the voters, for one because it might encourage the undecideds to vote leave. ---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 18:35 ---------- Once we vote leave in a referendum, the government best damn well leave. I would hope it's 4 too. 3 would at least be better than the status quo, whilst 1 and 2 would be a total disaster. Worse than what we would get from vote Remain even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) Reform is not on the ballot paper, so there is no risk of expectations. I'm merely pointing out the possibility. In fact the possibilities as I see them are as follows: A. Vote Remain 1. As we are, no change. We are in the EU forever. B. Vote Leave 1. As we are, no change. MPs may just decide to ignore the will of the people and use their majority preference to keep UK in single market. 2. Government might plan for exit, but it might be slow and in due course they might just say sorry can't do. We are in the EU forever. 3. The EU has a rethink on sovereignty issues for EU members. We might get genuine reform, and with or without another referendum, we stay. 4. Government plans for exit, and in due course we leave. Of course the true messy nature of these possibilities will not be communicated to the voters, for one because it might encourage the undecideds to vote leave. ---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 18:35 ---------- I would hope it's 4 too. 3 would at least be better than the status quo, whilst 1 and 2 would be a total disaster. Worse than what we would get from vote Remain even It would be electoral suicide for the government to not leave following a leave vote. I would strongly advise people who want the UK to remain in the EU, to vote as such. I have voted for leave. i expect the government to obey the UK people either way. This suggestion of vote-leave-to-remain diplomatic brinkmanship has a very low probability of success and would create a great deal of righteous anger. Edited June 13, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 It would be electoral suicide for the government to not leave following a leave vote. I would strongly advise people who want the UK to remain in the EU, to vote as such. I have voted for leave. i expect the government to obey the UK people either way. This suggestion of vote-leave-to-remain diplomatic brinkmanship has a very low probability of success and would create a great deal of righteous anger. The only way that a renegotiation post Brexit vote could be accepted would be via another referendum. I wouldn't have a problem with that, like I wouldn't have a problem having another referendum if the circumstances of our membership of the EU changed significantly in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 The only way that a renegotiation post Brexit vote could be accepted would be via another referendum. I wouldn't have a problem with that, like I wouldn't have a problem having another referendum if the circumstances of our membership of the EU changed significantly in the future. We should leave. If they want us to rejoin on better terms we'll look at rejoining later. If they wanted to avoid Brexit, they've had over 40 years to listen. I would not be surprised if they have an offer of supposedly better terms in their back pocket to pull out next week. That's really going to put the cat amongst the pigeons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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