EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[JFKvsNixon]

Once again. If you disapprove of Conservative policy post-Brexit, you can vote for somebody else in 2020.

This is the government the UK people elected and they should govern until then.

 

Do you really believe that the government are going to last until 2020? Either way it's fractured to the point that which ever side of the Tory party loses the referendum would join in a vote of no confidence.

 

The really frightening thing is how could such a fractured Tory Party win a general election? They've turned into Samson and pulled the temple down all around them.

[unbeliever]

According to the Brexit people what you are saying cannot possibly happen, and you're only scaremongering.

 

Cost of borrowing for the government is still dropping. Now 1.16%. On 24th may when remain were leading, it was 1.46%.

 

People understand that a financial dip is a common event and there are more

important things in play here. Including it seems the bond market.

 

---------- Post added 14-06-2016 at 11:37 ----------

 

Do you really believe that the government are going to last until 2020? Either way it's fractured to the point that which ever side of the Tory part loses the referendum would join in a vote of no confidence.

 

The really frightening thing is how could such a fractured Tory Party win a general election? They've turned into Samson and pulled the temple down all around them.

 

 

I don't believe anything like that will happen. Unless the vote is either ignored or in some way cheated.

If you don't want a Conservative government, vote for somebody else. If they win anyway, tough.

[Harrystottle]

I've been sent this.

 

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit production moved to Turkey from Southampton 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover have agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.

Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.

M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.

Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

 

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

 

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

 

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,

1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.

2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.

3/ You don't think it matters.

[Tomjames]

There's also this video on Facebook of Boris Johnson praising the EU and the virtues of Turkey joining it.

 

That's politics.

[JFKvsNixon]

I don't believe anything like that will happen. Unless the vote is either ignored or in some way cheated.

If you don't want a Conservative government, vote for somebody else. If they win anyway, tough.

 

If you re-read what I wrote, I said that the frightening thing is that a fractured Tory Party might not win any election post referendum.

[panzer1]

Truman, Everything that you say will not happen, control of our laws, being independent etc. Like I said this referendum will not be won on fiscal arguments, it will be won on emotion and feelings.

I fully understand your dire threats from the remain side I just do not believe them, that is where my feelings come in.

I have a deep seated, it's a strong word but will use it, hatred of the eu. The gravy train that feeds the likes of the kinnocks who are supposed to represent the working class, estimated 10 million since moving to Brussels , I despise it and all the Eurocrats within it.

There are hundreds of thousands like me if not more and you will never change my or theirs view point.

[blackydog]

Once again. If you disapprove of Conservative policy post-Brexit, you can vote for somebody else in 2020.

This is the government the UK people elected and they should govern until then.

 

Yes I can vote for someone else eg Jeremy Corbyn but the majority of the country won't. Can't see how the tories won't win the next election?

[unbeliever]

If you re-read what I wrote, I said that the frightening thing is that a fractured Tory Party might not win any election post referendum.

 

So you'd prefer a Conservative victory even with Boris at the helm?

Might have to vote for a smaller party myself. Not sure who. Perhaps there'll be an independent standing in my constituency.

[truman]

I've been sent this.

 

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit production moved to Turkey from Southampton 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover have agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.

Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.

M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.

Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

 

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

 

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

 

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,

1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.

2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.

3/ You don't think it matters.

 

And none of that would have happened if we hadn't been in the EU?

[L00b]

Tusk saying it "could trigger the end of western political civilisation in its entirety" will also have swayed more

That's regrettable, because he's right as a matter of principle, if not on the form which is unnecessarily rethorical.

 

A UK Brexit is indeed likely to precipitate significant political problems for the rest of the EU, potentially enough to shrink the EU back to the core 6 or 7. That would have global ramifications -especially for the developed world- not seen since the aftermath of 1929, making the post-2008 period look like a gentle pause for thoughts.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, indeed the EU should have given Cameron more...but as I posited yesterday, it would never have been enough for those sold on the idea of time-travelling back to 60s Britain, and I'm quietly confident Vote Leave's immigration-fuelled rethoric would have gone right through the improved deal just the same. It's human nature: a misleading and emotionally charged headline takes seconds to read and assimilate and agree with on the back of one's confirmation bias, explanations based on law and fact about why the headline is misleading or an outright lie take far longer to read and understand and agree with against one's confirmation bias.

 

And then, pragmatically, remember at all times that it's not "the EU" Cameron went to bat with, it's each of the other 27 member states: whilst it might have been perfectly do-able (and for all we know, was actually done) to reach a better consensus with Juncker and Tusk, contrary to popular belief it's not in their power to yay or nay anything and everything an EU member state wants. It's only in the collective power of the other member states.

 

Cannot express how sorry I feel at the idea of the consequences of a Brexit for the UK and most of the rest of Europe. Sorry that is, not fearful: I have readily-transferrable, rare and high-value skills in high-demand the world over, so we should be alright come what may.

 

Also cannot express how angry I am at the politically-motivated short-sightedness of the haranguing Vote Leave heads and activists. If there's a Brexit, in years to come there will be calls for them to swing from lampposts, mark my words.

Edited June 14, 2016 by L00b