EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[truman]

Nationality added in the above, for context (from memory, so open to correction of course...but I don't think I'll be wrong on most).

 

Most of them are true technology/R&D, established where they are for permanent and semi-permanent access to Uni R&D facilities and staff (and, in the context of the thread, many lending a useful hand to secure EU R&D grants).

 

Though the "EU mothership" (in revenue/tax terms) for several of these (and other large ones in Oxford and London) is over the water in Dublin.

 

They're supplying jobs here..I don't think Harrystottle was bothered who owned the companies..he wanted the name of one tech co. still in the UK

[Flanker7]

Nationality added in the above, for context (from memory, so open to correction of course...but I don't think I'll be wrong on most).

 

Most of them are true technology/R&D, established where they are for permanent and semi-permanent access to Uni R&D facilities and staff (and, in the context of the thread, many lending a useful hand to secure EU R&D grants).

 

Others like Cancer Reasearch and The Wellcome Trust stand quietly stand behind (and fund) many R&D efforts there (and elsewhere, including here in Sheffield - I've worked on some of it), just like the listed corpos but with a lesser profit-driven purpose.

 

Though the "EU mothership" (in revenue/tax terms) for several of these (and other large ones in Oxford and London) is over the water in Dublin.

 

They find ways to avoid/minimise payments whether its wages, taxes or initial resources. They have no moral compass and have no loyalty to any one country and will go wherever they get the best deals/most customers. Its the job of governments to control their excesses with legislation. Inside or outside Europe this won't change.

 

I guess EU has a better record than the UK looking after workers rights.

They locate themselves in the UK for the skills of the workforce and our ability to buy in European brains. I guess we get worldwide brains too but its just more difficult. Most of these companies have said the commitment to R&D from Europe is irreplaceable by just one country.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Flanker7

[Shef1985]

They're supplying jobs here..I don't think Harrystottle was bothered who owned the companies..he wanted the name of one tech co. still in the UK

 

Just one? Maybe we went overboard then

 

What are the latest figures for undecided? Anyone know?

[L00b]

Sorry, I'm obviously feeling a bit "Owen Jones" today. But this is actually my job, so the "sorry were you aware of that smiley face" annoyed me slightly.

Honestly didn't mean to, so I offer apologies.

Which is the point I was clumsily trying to make, to say that you can't point at the FTSE falling (as you just have) as evidence that Brexit is a disaster, not when other markets are falling too. You can't point at the GBP/JPY falling, not when all currencies are falling against the JPY too.

I have to take some exception to that, though: I haven't pointed at the FTSE falling as "evidence that Brexit is a disaster", I have pointed at the FTSE and the £ falling as "evidence that the forthcoming referendum is creating [ND:too much] uncertainty for the markets" who are consequently running for the bond hills.

 

That's why, in case you noted some of my posts from a couple of days ago (IIRC) in which I was bemoaning that "both sides have already lost regardless", I was -and am still- feeling quite "Owen Jones" myself at the Brexiters trumpeting their current poll performance and speaking about the referendum outcome like it's a done deal, when they clearly don't realise that the campaign itself has ended up destroying economic performance now, 2 weeks before the referendum and irrespective of its outcome.

 

Away from the markets, the FT and economic/financial tea leave reading, I'm seeing at the coalface since the beginning of the year, and never more so than since early May. Clients are increasingly withholding any and all action on IP portfolios, and many more than usual (significantly so) are finding it extremely hard to secure R&D/IP investment. And I very much doubt it's brinksmanship to try and reduce our fees, when the very existence of their pending rights lies in the balance.

They're supplying jobs here..I don't think Harrystottle was bothered who owned the companies..he wanted the name of one tech co. still in the UK

I'm hoping he'll realise the degree of imbrication and inter-dependence. But if he thought there were no tech co. in the UK to begin with...maybe not. Edited June 14, 2016 by L00b

[panzer1]

Shef he got a brake, my post said no benefits until you had paid in for 7 years. The brake is a sliding scale with full access after 4 years ( the brake can last up to 7 years until challenged in Europe court when migrant in year 7 gets restrictions but migrant in year 8 gets full access ) but nobody will say where the scale starts, is it 20% 50% or 80% of full benefits. Even the brake still has to be ratified by eu parlaiment so not worth the paper it is not written on, because as like turkeys entry into eu it only needs one veto.

[Shef1985]

Shef he got a brake, my post said no benefits until you had paid in for 7 years. The brake is a sliding scale with full access after 4 years ( the brake can last up to 7 years until challenged in Europe court when migrant in year 7 gets restrictions but migrant in year 8 gets full access ) but nobody will say where the scale starts, is it 20% 50% or 80% of full benefits. Even the brake still has to be ratified by eu parlaiment so not worth the paper it is not written on, because as like turkeys entry into eu it only needs one veto.

 

The countries most likely to be effected are those that pushed for a reduction from 13 to 7 years so it would be silly for them to Veto it.

 

The brake only applies to in work benefits as well. So it applies to people here that have a job and will therefore be contributing. It will start at zero and rise to 100% after 4 years in work.

[unbeliever]

The countries most likely to be effected are those that pushed for a reduction from 13 to 7 years so it would be silly for them to Veto it.

 

The brake only applies to in work benefits as well. So it applies to people here that have a job and will therefore be contributing. It will start at zero and rise to 100% after 4 years in work.

 

If it passes the EU parliament. Or the commission are willing to expend political capital forcing it through or around the EU parliament in defiance of democracy.

[panzer1]

Can I ask where your source is for starting at zero because nobody has ever before said where it starts, either Cameron or anybody on here.

 

---------- Post added 14-06-2016 at 16:17 ----------

 

To get my vote to stay in I would want it on all benefits in work and out.

[milquetoast1]

Honestly didn't mean to, so I offer apologies.

I have to take some exception to that, though: I haven't pointed at the FTSE falling as "evidence that Brexit is a disaster", I have pointed at the FTSE and the £ falling as "evidence that the forthcoming referendum is creating [ND:too much] uncertainty for the markets" who are consequently running for the bond hills.

 

That's why, in case you noted some of my posts from a couple of days ago (IIRC) in which I was bemoaning that "both sides have already lost regardless", I was -and am still- feeling quite "Owen Jones" myself at the Brexiters trumpeting their current poll performance and speaking about the referendum outcome like it's a done deal, when they clearly don't realise that the campaign itself has ended up destroying economic performance now, 2 weeks before the referendum and irrespective of its outcome.

 

Away from the markets, the FT and economic/financial tea leave reading, I'm seeing at the coalface since the beginning of the year, and never more so than since early May. Clients are increasingly withholding any and all action on IP portfolios, and many more than usual (significantly so) are finding it extremely hard to secure R&D/IP investment. And I very much doubt it's brinksmanship to try and reduce our fees, when the very existence of their pending rights lies in the balance.

I'm hoping he'll realise the degree of imbrication and inter-dependence. But if he thought there were no tech co. in the UK to begin with...maybe not.

 

I always appreciate your posts L00b, and don't doubt that your business might be more sensitive than our's. We're just shifting product, so the risks are minimal.

 

Also appreciate you won't like an investment I made a few weeks ago. £5 on Leave to win by 55% or more @ 18-1. I just couldn't align what I was hearing from family and friends with the polls at the time. So I apologise for Brexiters trumpeting.

 

If there's any consolation I still suspect that whilst the leave vote will win, we won't leave. Or when Junker visits next week he'll make some Cameron Scottish Referendum style promises that will swing it.

[Shef1985]

If it passes the EU parliament. Or the commission are willing to expend political capital forcing it through or around the EU parliament in defiance of democracy.

 

This referendum will be close and if IN wins Cameron will have about a third of his party breathing down his neck and a possible UKIP rise. Do you really think they will welsh on the deal?

 

I know you're going to say yes to that because you hate those bloody evil EU bureaucrats!

 

Meh, TS if they do. We're still better in. Is my response to your claim they'll welsh.