EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[L00b]

Such protectionism is not unpopular... <...>

Yes, I'm sure that this is exactly why Leave is so sure that the UK will be getting free trade agreement on the double

 

Any advance of your NAFTA argument, or can we now consider that argument debunked?

 

I take it that it never occurred to you that the US growing protectionist could be an impediment to the UK reaching a free trade deal with them on the double?

Edited June 15, 2016 by L00b

[tzijlstra]

It is about a week until the referendum and it is a fair opportunity to review the campaigns. I have to say - the Remain campaign has been atrocious from the first moment. I can't deny any of the 'fear-mongering' claims by the Brexit campaign, the Remain campaign seems almost entirely predicated on the assumption that economic predictions are enough to convince people to stay in.

 

I have hardly heard any campaigners actually correcting the countless fallacies that are floating around about the EU in the UK. I don't know whether this is due to sheer ignorance or due to a more sinister reason: our politicians know full well they have lied about the EU too much in the past and those lies could come back and haunt them if they now start telling the truth.

 

Whatever it is - it is annoying the life out of me. What worries me most is that people will have swung to the Brexit camp simply because they can stab straight through the fluff coming out of the remain camp, rather than actually judging this decision on its merit.

 

This isn't to say that the Brexit camp isn't lying through its teeth, but they have the advantage of consistency.

[Tomjames]

It is about a week until the referendum and it is a fair opportunity to review the campaigns. I have to say - the Remain campaign has been atrocious from the first moment. I can't deny any of the 'fear-mongering' claims by the Brexit campaign, the Remain campaign seems almost entirely predicated on the assumption that economic predictions are enough to convince people to stay in.

 

I have hardly heard any campaigners actually correcting the countless fallacies that are floating around about the EU in the UK. I don't know whether this is due to sheer ignorance or due to a more sinister reason: our politicians know full well they have lied about the EU too much in the past and those lies could come back and haunt them if they now start telling the truth.

 

Whatever it is - it is annoying the life out of me. What worries me most is that people will have swung to the Brexit camp simply because they can stab straight through the fluff coming out of the remain camp, rather than actually judging this decision on its merit.

 

This isn't to say that the Brexit camp isn't lying through its teeth, but they have the advantage of consistency.

 

Both sides are lying. The brexit side cant substantiate any claims.

 

The remain side have been lazy and relying on the media to push a message of fear.

 

Terrible campaign on both sides.

[tinfoilhat]

The BBC caught up with Gillian recently

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36373649

 

And frankly she still sounded like a bigot. She wasn't bothered about learning facts, (which I'd grant her is increasingly difficult).

 

That the remain camp are going all out to make me want to leave. Osbornes £30bn in taxes and cuts? Don't take me for a total muppet George.

[dutch]

EU has just put another step towards elimination of all EU mobile roaming cost. Have fun leaving, enjoy it. I'm laughing

Edited June 15, 2016 by dutch

[Zamo]

Yes, I'm sure that this is exactly why Leave is so sure that the UK will be getting free trade agreement on the double

 

Any advance of your NAFTA argument, or can we now consider that argument debunked?

 

I take it that it never occurred to you that the US growing protectionist could be an impediment to the UK reaching a free trade deal with them on the double?

 

You have pointed out some flaws with NAFTA but some protectionism doesn't mean it isn't a functioning trade bloc without free movement of people. If you think that a little protectionism is going to be more of a concern to people than the impact of mass immigration then you are wrong. The argument stands... free movement of people is not a requirement for a functioning trade bloc.

 

US protectionism may well delay the UK signing a free trade deal with the US. It has certainly proven a stumbling block for the EU, which still doesn't have one. There is also a lot of concern about the deal currently being negotiated by the EU. The fact is that we've traded with the US for centuries without a free-trade deal and that isn't going to change if we leave the EU.

[Tomjames]

The remain facebook ADS are horrendous.

 

It's just a 5 second video of a cartoon looking down a black hole. Slogan: "Your family will lose jobs & money, don't risk it".

 

Do they think people are that unintelligent?

 

this will end in tears.

[panzer1]

Well dutch if that's what buys your vote ( which I think is to remain, none too clear ) then I have one word that covers it......sad.

 

Deutsche bank recommending investing in UK companies post Brexit as an out vote will cause panic in europes stock markets and because they will " out perform the European market". So an out vote does not look that bad if a German bank is recommending investing in the UK.

[Shef1985]

Well dutch if that's what buys your vote ( which I think is to remain, none too clear ) then I have one word that covers it......sad.

 

Deutsche bank recommending investing in UK companies post Brexit as an out vote will cause panic in europes stock markets and because they will " out perform the European market". So an out vote does not look that bad if a German bank is recommending investing in the UK.

 

Yes Panz, if you are happy to accept they make that recommendation because the pound will drop. How is that a good thing for an average Brexiter that doesn't care about the FTSE but does fancy a holiday in the Costa del Sol?

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1284849/deutsche-banks-advice-to-invest-in-uk-if-leave-wins-ballot/

 

They might care that all of a sudden a pint is more than it used to be in Crete huh? And those fags you mentioned.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Shef1985

[L00b]

Deutsche bank recommending investing in UK companies post Brexit as an out vote will cause panic in europes stock markets and because they will " out perform the European market". So an out vote does not look that bad if a German bank is recommending investing in the UK.

I wonder why?

 

Follow the money, for once it's glaringly obvious.

You have pointed out some flaws with NAFTA but some protectionism doesn't mean it isn't a functioning trade bloc without free movement of people.

I did not state or suggest that it wasn't functioning. Just that it is not comparable to the EU as a trading bloc. More like the ECSC of old.

If you think that a little protectionism is going to be more of a concern to people than the impact of mass immigration then you are wrong.

I don't think so at all, and have no doubt in the matter, as I have a reasonable understanding of human nature, and gullibility and prejudice within that.

 

But then, that's down to "people" 's understanding of how international trade agreements (bilateral or broader) ultimately impact their daily life in real and pragmatic terms, never mind how immigration quotas are frequently dovetailed into such agreements.

 

I'm done banging my head about that particular brick wall. Now I'll just wait, smirk, and eventually LOL at "people" querying angrily why their lot has become so <pre-emptively removed>

 

Do I laugh at other people's misfortune? When it's deserved, absolutely. With a flake in it and a cherry on top

The argument stands... free movement of people is not a requirement for a functioning trade bloc.

But then, your argument was based on NAFTA, which is substantially different in trading scope and integration from the EU's Single Market. I'm happy for your to revisit with a better/closer example. Like the EFTA for example

US protectionism may well delay the UK signing a free trade deal with the US. It has certainly proven a stumbling block for the EU, which still doesn't have one. There is also a lot of concern about the deal currently being negotiated by the EU. The fact is that we've traded with the US for centuries without a free-trade deal and that isn't going to change if we leave the EU.

Indeed. But the fundamental change you're missing, is that the US will not be trading with the UK as an EU member state anymore.

 

You'll find out soon enough that the US doesn't owe the UK a comfy living, anymore than the other 27 EU member states, India, China, Russia, Japan, Brazil, etc. do.

Edited June 15, 2016 by L00b