unbeliever Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Apparently the remain MP,s both labour and Tory have said they will rebel against the proposed budget. Cannot see jez supporting more cuts either so not sure where that will,leave osborne There is zero chance of this so called emergency budget getting a majority in the HoC. I wonder if it would be a confidence vote. Either way, it's dead on the vine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Much the same. You're (I think) a Conservative in general. Did you believe the IMF when they told the Chancellor in 2010 that spending cuts were a terrible idea and would trigger a double-dip in the recession? Here is an article showing that the UK came out of a double dip recession in 2012... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/oct/25/uk-emerges-from-double-dip-recession-george-osborne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 But then, that's down to "people" 's understanding of how international trade agreements (bilateral or broader) ultimately impact their daily life in real and pragmatic terms, never mind how immigration quotas are frequently dovetailed into such agreements. It is unrealistic to expect ordinary people to consider such things. It is for those who want power to work out how to administer trade agreements without consequence that are going to make the natives restless. I'm afraid the run of the mill pleb just has no interest in the finer details of trade agreements and will simply react to what impacts them directly. If the politicians and bureaucrats don't balance the needs of business with the needs of the plebs then they risk democracy eventually biting them on the asre. And the balance hasn't been right for years and the complaints and warnings have been coming for years. There has been plenty of opportunity to compromise but there has been none and now it is increasingly looking like it is time to pay the piper for that arrogance. But then, your argument was based on NAFTA, which is substantially different in trading scope and integration from the EU's Single Market. I'm happy for your to revisit with a better/closer example. Like the EFTA for example No, NAFTA was just an example to show a trading bloc functioning without free movement of people. Remove the free movement of people 'pillar' from the EU and you'll find that really doesn't all fall down. This was/is all avoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 OH my god the remain side of the tories have completely lost the plot. Osborne is now threatening an emergency budget if we don't vote remain. He's even threatening to cut the ringfenced NHS budget. Has he gone completely and utterly mad? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36541271 Yes he has gone completely and utterly mad. If you want evidence that he is a clueless buffoon, which I have been arguing he is for years on here, then there you have it. While Osborne is threatening fake hell and damnation, Farage is having a cracking day out on the Thames. Cameron and Osborne's careers at the top ended this week IMO. They can't recover from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) Here is an article showing that the UK came out of a double dip recession in 2012... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/oct/25/uk-emerges-from-double-dip-recession-george-osborne The case is less clear-cut than I thought and I can't find the specific warnings, so I withdraw my original point about the IMF and Osbourne's first budget. ---------- Post added 15-06-2016 at 16:26 ---------- Yes he has gone completely and utterly mad. If you want evidence that he is a clueless buffoon, which I have been arguing he is for years on here, then there you have it. While Osborne is threatening fake hell and damnation, Farage is having a cracking day out on the Thames. Cameron and Osborne's careers at the top ended this week IMO. They can't recover from this. They really have gone "all in". No thought of political survival if they lose the vote it seems. Seems we have plenty of embarrassing idiots on both sides of this matter. Perhaps this referendum will provide the UK political scene with a much needed (although disruptive in the short term) shake-up. Edited June 15, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomjames Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Yes he has gone completely and utterly mad. If you want evidence that he is a clueless buffoon, which I have been arguing he is for years on here, then there you have it. While Osborne is threatening fake hell and damnation, Farage is having a cracking day out on the Thames. Cameron and Osborne's careers at the top ended this week IMO. They can't recover from this. Agree, the unravelling starts here, should be fun to watch. ---------- Post added 15-06-2016 at 16:41 ---------- Apparently the remain MP,s both labour and Tory have said they will rebel against the proposed budget. Cannot see jez supporting more cuts either so not sure where that will,leave osborne Pointing towards exit door? Jez said in PMQ's today Labour won't support cuts as won't 57 conservative MP's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Much the same. You're (I think) a Conservative in general. Did you believe the IMF when they told the Chancellor in 2010 that spending cuts were a terrible idea and would trigger a double-dip in the recession? Are you somehow trying to argue everything went as planned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Are you somehow trying to argue everything went as planned? I've already withdrawn this point. My recollection was that the IMF initially issued grave warnings and advocated a more neo-Keynesian approach to Osbourne and then later (when things went reasonably well) reversed themselves. I can't find what I need to back this up, so it's possible I'm not remembering right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I've already withdrawn this point. My recollection was that the IMF initially issued grave warnings and advocated a more neo-Keynesian approach to Osbourne and then later (when things went reasonably well) reversed themselves. I can't find what I need to back this up, so it's possible I'm not remembering right. No, you were correct, the IMF did predict a double dip if nations issued spending cuts and tax rises. In the report the UK was not singled out but it was seen as a blow to Osborne's plan. As we did recover from a double dip in 2012 it seems the IMF was correct. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7301378/Cutting-deficit-before-2011-may-lead-to-double-dip-recession-IMF-warns.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 They really have gone "all in". No thought of political survival if they lose the vote it seems.Didn't I tell you that Cameron would run out of No.10 faster than a bat out of hell if the vote is Brexit? I think I did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts