EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[ANGELFIRE1]

Good for you, you shouldn't let a little matter like facts get in the way of your opinion.

 

As I stated, I'll stick with my version of the "facts", just my opinion of course.

 

Angel1.

[JFKvsNixon]

As I stated, I'll stick with my version of the "facts", just my opinion of course.

 

Angel1.

 

Could you share what you got your "facts" from?

[taxman]

There are legitimate arguments from both left and right as to whether being in the EU is best for Britain. For example you couldn't get two people so diametrically opposed as Tony Benn and Bill Cash but they were/are opposed to the EU and the constraints/lack of autonomy/dictatorial aspects of the EU.

 

But then some on the "left" are in favour of some of the social aspects of the EU and against the economic aspects and the "right" are in favour of the economic but against the social.

 

There's no doubt it is flawed, and as a European experiment I think the ongoing refugee crisis is showing it up to be a bit of a farce.....but if push came to shove.....I'd go Yes....but am willing to listen to serious commentators (i.e not UKIP) as to the real benefits of being outside.

[tinfoilhat]

There are legitimate arguments from both left and right as to whether being in the EU is best for Britain. For example you couldn't get two people so diametrically opposed as Tony Benn and Bill Cash but they were/are opposed to the EU and the constraints/lack of autonomy/dictatorial aspects of the EU.

 

But then some on the "left" are in favour of some of the social aspects of the EU and against the economic aspects and the "right" are in favour of the economic but against the social.

 

There's no doubt it is flawed, and as a European experiment I think the ongoing refugee crisis is showing it up to be a bit of a farce.....but if push came to shove.....I'd go Yes....but am willing to listen to serious commentators (i.e not UKIP) as to the real benefits of being outside.

 

I suspect if Cameron could push back the date if the referendum he would. Europe is going to move to the right and borders are going to go back up - whether merkle likes it or not. He needs to see of merkle off - she surely won't get back in - and he can ask people for deals who are more likely to give them.

[Brian Equato]

Basically the political consensus is that we should stay in. No matter what the Conservatives might say about allowing people a choice it is clear from Cameron's stance (powerful backing for yes campaign) that the core policy of the party is to remain in the EU. Most of their business sponsors support staying in, as does the majority of the banking sector. Similarly with Labour, although Corbyn makes anti-EU noises the will of his party is to stay in and he can't defy that. The SNP want to stay in. As do the LibDems. As do Plaid Cymru.

 

Those parties account for 629 out of 651 commons seats at the 2015 election.

 

Quite simply the political will is simply not going to align with the will of the people. Even if a yes vote happens it will require acts of parliament to progress the exit process and there will never be a majority vote in support of starting that process, in either house.

 

In the event of a yes vote what will happen is a period of intense parliamentary debate with a storm of scare stories from the media, and maybe even a genuine renegotiation process with the EU for which there is no time before the forthcoming referendum. It will become clear that the people never really understood what they were voting for the first time round. It will go to another referendum and the politicians will get exactly the result they want - to stay in.

 

So yes basically the whole thing is a sham and a gigantic con trick on the British people, the 'establishment' has absolutely no desire for Britain to leave the EU, probably too many vested interests. This plebiscite will use tricks, scare tactics and made-up statistics to frighten people in to voting to stay in and silence UKIP and the Conservative Eurosceptics, ending the argument for decades to come arguing that 'The people' have voted to stay in.

 

In the unlikely event of an 'out' vote, negotiations will start, not to leave but to work out a way people can be persuaded to vote to stay in in a further referendum, don't take any notice of Cameron saying an out vote means we will definately leave, he doesn't mean it, it's not a cast-iron guaranteee, it's just trying to prevent voters tactically trying to use an 'out' vote as leverage to secure better terms.

[JFKvsNixon]

I think you can still believe in the EU idea even if you think that it's not being administered very well at the moment, after all we don't think we should get rid of our Houses of Parliament every time we get a rubbish set of people running things.

[I1L2T3]

So yes basically the whole thing is a sham and a gigantic con trick on the British people, the 'establishment' has absolutely no desire for Britain to leave the EU, probably too many vested interests. This plebiscite will use tricks, scare tactics and made-up statistics to frighten people in to voting to stay in and silence UKIP and the Conservative Eurosceptics, ending the argument for decades to come arguing that 'The people' have voted to stay in.

 

In the unlikely event of an 'out' vote, negotiations will start, not to leave but to work out a way people can be persuaded to vote to stay in in a further referendum, don't take any notice of Cameron saying an out vote means we will definately leave, he doesn't mean it, it's not a cast-iron guaranteee, it's just trying to prevent voters tactically trying to use an 'out' vote as leverage to secure better terms.

 

Well, two or three years of noise around a referendum is good for getting people looking in the wrong direction while all kinds of other less than palatable legislation gets passed on the quiet.

 

It is not a cast iron guarantee. There are plenty of pro-EU conservative MPs. More than enough to defeat any attempt to legislate to start the exit process.

[tinfoilhat]

I think you can still believe in the EU idea even if you think that it's not being administered very well at the moment, after all we don't think we should get rid of our Houses of Parliament every time we get a rubbish set of people running things.

 

But if we could (without violence and anarchy) would we? Some might but I reckon the same sort of scum will float to the top.

 

The EU is so big and bloated I think it's impossible to reform properly, the best you can hope for a is a little deal here or there. The whole borders thing will change over time but even then it's not going to a huge visa system put in place instead or anything like it.

[I1L2T3]

Don't forget that one of the biggest reasons for people voting 'out' is immigration and concerns about that just keep growing. As millions more migrants arrive in Europe from the dysfunctional parts of the world, the problems will keep on hitting and more and more people will turn to anti-EU/immigration parties out of frustration and anger.

 

Give people another few years of that, add in a failure to respect the outcome of an 'out' referendum and you will see UKIP topping the polls. It would be political suicide not to abide by an 'out' decision.

 

You are missing the point that we probably right now have the best immigration control possible whilst remaining in the single market.

 

If we left the EU then we could be over a barrel with the EU stipulating that a condition of single market access is that we have freer movement of people.

 

You only have to see what recently happened when the Swiss tried to lock things down that we could potentially end up worse off.

[ANGELFIRE1]

Could you share what you got your "facts" from?

 

 

Aye, it's a new concept, but keep it very quiet as only one or two folk know of it.

 

It's called GOOGLE, there I have let the cat out of the bag now, everyone will be using it.

 

Angel1.