EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[Tomjames]

Go on youtube and type in "lexit "by far the most compelling arguements I've heard from either side

 

Leaving student film quality aside, ive listened to most of these arguments and considered carefully.

 

The EU is good for most big business and good for banks. It's one centralized group to lobby. I used this as a negative earlier in the debate. That's conceded and that's why they've bank rolled the remain side.

 

So JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs etc benefit from bail outs and other Big business benefit from access to a low paid pool of workers. It's no secret.

 

However what the leave side fail to grasp (or keep quiet) is, leaving wont give us (the majority British people) the change we desire. It's a false dawn. Progression is only going to come from the British people voting for a better UK government.

In actual fact atm it's only the Labour government under Corbyn that has proposed a solution to the problems highlighted in the film whether you like it or not.

 

There's no redemption in the hard right wing of the conservative party. They don't serve anybody but the elite. Leaving Europe with them in power or gaining traction can't solve immigration, Business power, workers rights, I could go on....they don't represent the working man. They certainly don't represent or give a stuff about northern cities like Sheffield.

 

I also consider what I'd want this country to be like in the future. I'd prefer an outward looking country that works with other countries in co-operation not little England.

 

Hope that's clear

[Quik]

I Googled the date that tampon VAT was removed because you asked. First hit was a Guardian article from March 21st so I thought, well that's it or thereabouts. Wasn't Googling anything about the conference.

 

The refugee crisis isn't directly EU related. Nor is it an invasion. The Turks seem to think it is though, having apparently shot children.

 

Well there you go you learned something. We had to send our PM disrupt an EU conference about the migrant 'insert word of choice' to spend an hour disrupting it about UK VAT on tampons to force the exception for us. Thats how dignified a position we are with the EU right now.

[Guest]

YouTube Jacob rees mogg on the EU. I know he's a bit of a cartoon character but he makes very good sense on this subject.

[Tomjames]

A left-wing leaflet, sponsored by a few left-wing organisations, calling for a Brexit was distributed in Nether Edge a few weeks ago. I spoke to the bloke delivering it. He's a member of the Communist Party. When I read the leaflet it bemoaned the lack of democracy in the EU. There's irony I thought.

 

I got it. A very cheaply made 'Lexit' leaflet with a few select flimsy arguments and points on it.

 

Fair enough it contained a few facts. But it was a bit all over the place rather than a strong, coherent argument. Nothing we didnt know already about the imperfect EU institution.

[unbeliever]

Well there you go you learned something. We had to send our PM disrupt an EU conference about the migrant 'insert word of choice' to spend an hour disrupting it about UK VAT on tampons to force the exception for us. Thats how dignified a position we are with the EU right now.

 

There it is then.

Every time we hold a referendum, we get one very small concession from the EU.

Looks like it's referenda from here on out chaps. I suggest for the next referendum, we ask the EU, if we can please remove the VAT from domestic heating. You know, if it's okay Sir and such.

[Tomjames]

What?!?

You've been ranting for pages about how this is all driven by a bunch right-wing zealots/fascists or whatever and now you're talking about "the experts".

 

Well I could ask you to answer the question I asked a couple of pages back as to what the economic experts are actually predicting, but I don't see the point.

 

You won't read the economic predictions, and you won't read the Labour leave material. You just want to insult people on here and elsewhere and talk like everybody who disagrees with you is either evil or stupid.

 

No. Get lost. This was a reasoned debate between genuine, thinking people before you showed up.

 

See above post. I think you'll find it quite reasoned.

 

Is this you throwing your dummy out the pram then, 'get lost'..how mature. .

[TheChet]

Well there you go you learned something. We had to send our PM disrupt an EU conference about the migrant 'insert word of choice' to spend an hour disrupting it about UK VAT on tampons to force the exception for us. Thats how dignified a position we are with the EU right now.

 

Not just for us and not just limited to tampons.

 

I don't know the exact timing, whether it clashed with any specific migrant crisis meeting or not. First article mentioning success at absolving tampons from VAT was March 21st 2016 so I went with that. Just assume it happened some time in March, this year. All the big migration crisis meetings were last year when it really kicked off.

 

We have so much dignity in Europe no-one wants us to leave.

[unbeliever]

See above post. I think you'll find it quite reasoned.

 

Is this you throwing your dummy out the pram then, 'get lost'..how mature. .

 

I'm a patient man, but I have my limits.

 

 

Leaving student film quality aside, ive listened to most of these arguments and considered carefully.

 

The EU is good for most big business and good for banks. It's one centralized group to lobby. I used this as a negative earlier in the debate. That's conceded and that's why they've bank rolled the remain side.

 

So JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs etc benefit from bail outs and other Big business benefit from access to a low paid pool of workers. It's no secret.

 

However what the leave side fail to grasp (or keep quiet) is, leaving wont give us (the majority British people) the change we desire. It's a false dawn. Progression is only going to come from the British people voting for a better UK government.

In actual fact atm it's only the Labour government under Corbyn that has proposed a solution to the problems highlighted in the film whether you like it or not.

 

There's no redemption in the hard right wing of the conservative party. They don't serve anybody but the elite. Leaving Europe with them in power or gaining traction can't solve immigration, Business power, workers rights, I could go on....they don't represent the working man. They certainly don't represent or give a stuff about northern cities like Sheffield.

 

I also consider what I'd want this country to be like in the future. I'd prefer an outward looking country that works with other countries in co-operation not little England.

 

Hope that's clear

 

I don't know whether to believe you or not.

This is nothing like what you've written up to now. You don't seem to have copied and pasted it.

It's like I'm talking to a different person.

 

In the hope that reason will prevail, here goes:

Your argument is flawed. The flaws with the EU are structural. They won't change. Your only hope of getting the government and the policies you want if to leave the EU and vote for those policies.

Nobody serious on the leave side is planning anything resembling isolation. We have friends throughout the world and we will remain friends with our cousins across the channel. This is not about that.

The question is whether to be part of collective government with them, leading ultimately to a unified nation.

[TheChet]

There it is then.

Every time we hold a referendum, we get one very small concession from the EU.

Looks like it's referenda from here on out chaps. I suggest for the next referendum, we ask the EU, if we can please remove the VAT from domestic heating. You know, if it's okay Sir and such.

 

Leave's own poster/pamphlet say that will save families just £64 a year.

[Eater Sundae]

Just watched Jeremy Corbyn on Sky news, he wants to remain in order to get reform, this could take decades, Labours John Mann says there is no chance of reform from the inside and that's the reason he's voting out. Thanks for the Lexit link mediumfast I will check it out. Labours Kate Hoey now saying that the EU cannot be reformed.

 

The EU changes all the time. In fact, it is possible changes that the brexiters are using to try and frighten the electorate into voting leave. The key to gaining reform is to take an active part in designing these changes, instead of just sitting on the sidelines, moaning that reform is impossible.