EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[unbeliever]

Do they? Or is the argument that it is not behaving in a democratic fashion that is creating economic uncertainty? Because that is what it is - the Remain camp is lying to the public, without a proper exit plan, which is creating the uncertainty.

 

Perhaps you ought to have a good long think about that.

 

Nope. You can always criticise the way campaigns are conducted. Economic uncertainty is the inevitable product of democracy. Up until this referendum, all right-minded people understood this and accepted it. Perhaps we should cancel the 2020 election if economic stability trumps democracy?

 

Not only is a referendum a fundamentally good thing in terms of government accountability, it was in the government's manifesto.

I expect that remain is going to win this referendum anyway. It was quite obviously far and away the right moral choice to hold the referendum.

Edited June 21, 2016 by unbeliever

[L00b]

Yes, it was dispelling the myth pushed by the In campaign they these companies would leave the UK if we leave the EU, each company has said they will not leave the UK, it doesn't say that they support Brexit, it just says they won't leave the UK if we Brexit.

Here is the relevant extract of the leaflet in question.

 

Here is Nissan's corporate statement about the referendum.

 

To be clear, that's corporate speak for "we'll keep the plants running in the UK so long as they remain competitive, but we're reserving all our options about the future, and make no commitment whatsoever about further investments in the UK."

 

Do I need to explain to you what happens to a manufacturing plant when investment taps are turned off? Does that put jobs at risk?

Funny Loob but they sound like threats to me.

At the risk of offending you (again), it doesn't matter one bit what they 'sound' to you.

 

If you can't understand that, in any negotiation, there's always at least two sides, each pulling the proverbial blanket to itself in its own self-interest, I'm afraid there's no helping your understanding further.

Edited June 21, 2016 by L00b

[panzer1]

No offence taken but seeing as I am voting as are millions of others, these perceived threats may have the opposite effect intended. It would have been nice if the remain camp had come up with some nice reasons for staying rather than doom and gloom and threats.

[Tomjames]

Brexit is so unsupported by business, economists and other interest groups that now Nissan is going to take legal action and Toyota is considering legal action against the Leave campaign that, completely without their permission, used the logos on their leaflet claiming support from two of the biggest private employers in the country.

 

 

Good job leave, just keep adding the lies. It seems to me that the self-destruct button has well and truly been pushed in the last week.

 

What's saddest is leave are willing to play with people's jobs and lives in the face of all reason and available evidence on the notion we are going to win back "sovereignty" and go back in time 50 years to being little England.

 

They will do it at ANY cost to the British public. Caught in the farage-gove-boris traktor beam!

[Eater Sundae]

Okay, I work part time and earn just over 7k p.a. I've always thought the EU was all about big business and for them, keeping us in the EU provides an abundance of labour which in turn keeps wages low, isn't it in the interest of big business for us to stay in, obviously. My D.I.L is also on minimum wage she is a carer and has been working in the same job for over 10 years. My mum did the same job many years ago when it was deemed an important job and the salary was good, what's happened since then?

 

I'm also fed up of the remain campaigns constant arrogant sneering attitude towards people who aren't big earners, an example was a thread deleted last night.

 

Interestingly I just read this which kind of fits with what I believe.

 

 

 

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/about-us/

 

I believe there would be little hope of protecting the low paid if we leave the EU. There would still be an influx of people from poorer counties which will depress wages. The best bet would be the natural socialist tendencies of the EU to try to defend the lower paid and create an even yet aspirational playing field. If we leave, I believe that the way forward will generally be a Tory one (more so if Scotland then leaves the UK in order to remain in the EU). That will include a lower paid underclass and minimal worker benefits.

 

Either way, we are in a global trading market. China, India and others can throw a lot of cheap labour at any problem. We cannot ignore it. I don't believe a race to the bottom is in our best interests. Our best interests are served by aspiring to be better. I think that is better achieved by being in the EU. A lot of countries with a common purpose and defending against a race to the bottom.

[MobileB]

Indeed.

 

But they have a much better of chance of remaining competitive with ongoing investment, than without. Wouldn't you say?

It isn't.

 

The leaflet is to make a case for the Leave vote, not the Remain vote.

 

The leaflet does not convey or even suggest that jobs are at risk if the UK stays or leaves.

 

The leaflet conveys that Nissan, Toyota, Airbus <etc.> jobs are not at risk if the UK leaves, because the companies have stated that they are staying in the UK.

 

It's a misrepresentation of these companies' statements, which are all entirely silent about maintaining all current jobs in case of a Leave vote.

 

Legally speaking, Vote Leave looks toast on that one.

 

Even if the misrepresentation wasn't considered as such by the Court, they're fully caught on trade mark infringement regardless (and passing off, which I'm quietly confident Nissan's Counsel will have lobbed in for good measure).

 

And we're talking "well known marks" here, not little relatively unknown SME name or product brands. As I said before, big numbers.

 

I do this for a living, so have a fair idea of the ins and outs involved, down to procedural timescales and nitty-gritty. But you knew that, of course

 

Don't worry , Brexit will repeal any trade mark laws. It will be open free trade to all. Genuine Fake, Genuine Fake and all that .........

 

Did see Mickey Grove this morning on breakfast tv. Maybe just my impression but he did look a little broken and resigned to defeat I thought.

[Zamo]

A lot longer than that. a recent trade deal with Canada took 7 years to set up ... and that's just Canada. in the meantime, it would lead to years and years of uncertainty and limbo for businesses.

 

This is a vote about whether we want this country to retain full sovereignty and democracy. It is something previous generations have risked far more to retain. Since when did 'uncertainty' for businesses becomes so unbearable a risk that we'd abandon such a precious principle and betray the sacrifices of previous generations who passed this gift on to us?

 

The Stay campaign argues that taking 40 pieces of silver is a reasonable price for abandoning principles and capitulation. It is shameful. The EU has become a dictatorship that is controlled by an unelected elite that the British public cannot hold to account. If we want government that we as a people can hold to account for the laws they introduce and the policies they implement, then we must vote to leave the EU. If people agree with the principle of self-rule for this country then please don't abandon this principle out of fear. Let's inspire the rest of Europe and watch the EU model (that the vast majority of people do not like) goes up in flames and out of the ashes emerges an organisation that oversee the running of a trade bloc and not an empire.

[SnailyBoy]

This is a vote about whether we want this country to retain full sovereignty and democracy. It is something previous generations have risked far more to retain. Since when did 'uncertainty' for businesses becomes so unbearable a risk that we'd abandon such a precious principle and betray the sacrifices of previous generations who passed this gift on to us?

 

The Stay campaign argues that taking 40 pieces of silver is a reasonable price for abandoning principles and capitulation. It is shameful. The EU has become a dictatorship that is controlled by an unelected elite that the British public cannot hold to account. If we want government that we as a people can hold to account for the laws they introduce and the policies they implement, then we must vote to leave the EU. If people agree with the principle of self-rule for this country then please don't abandon this principle out of fear. Let's inspire the rest of Europe and watch the EU model (that the vast majority of people do not like) goes up in flames and out of the ashes emerges an organisation that oversee the running of a trade bloc and not an empire.

 

Which EU law would you say has negatively impacted you the most?

[lazarus]

There are about as many Britons living in other EU countries as EU migrants in the UK. So, if you want EU migrants to leave, you'll end up with just as many people being sent back to the UK.

 

You forget over a million immigrants are here in Britain, while the amount of British in Europe are spread over several countries. Most of the people who say that immigration isn't a problem don't live on council estates where these immigrants are put. You don't see immigrants in Whirlow, Dore or Totley, I wonder why?

[max]

You forget over a million immigrants are here in Britain, while the amount of British in Europe are spread over several countries. Most of the people who say that immigration isn't a problem don't live on council estates where these immigrants are put. You don't see immigrants in Whirlow, Dore or Totley, I wonder why?

 

In terms of immigration most people admit that there needs to be a curb but until the domestic political will is there then there is not likely to be much control over it in the foreseeable future.

 

However, for the Brexit campaign to claim to be able to stop immigration from either inside or outside the EU should we vote leave is a lie. The people claiming that would need to have it in their manifesto and then get elected. People forget that this was a commitment of the present government, down to 10s of thousands was their claim, but they have failed to achieve their target. Not because of the EU but because they don't want to.

 

We can control it now but it is not in the interest of the politicians to do so.