Eater Sundae Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 You forget over a million immigrants are here in Britain, while the amount of British in Europe are spread over several countries. Most of the people who say that immigration isn't a problem don't live on council estates where these immigrants are put. You don't see immigrants in Whirlow, Dore or Totley, I wonder why? The Brits overseas are spread over several countries in Europe. Similarly, the Europeans in the UK come from several European countries. I don't see your point, unless it is that all European are being grouped together as "foreign". I know EU (and non-EU for that matter) immigrants in both Whirlow and Dore. (And Bents Green and Fulwood). I don't know any in Totley, but as it happens, I don't know anyone at all in Totley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) It isn't a criticism, it is a condemnation - the Leave camp LIE about A LOT. From the £350 million a week to being able to control immigration AND staying in the single market. It is all based on hot air. The £350m is spin. I've condemned it multiple times. The remain are worse. How many (often intelligent and well informed) people are being conned into thinking the experts have predicted a substantial contraction following Brexit, by people actually talking about numbers for reduced growth? Oh and let's not forget the "single market access" term, specifically designed to con people into thinking we won't be able to buy and sell things from the EU without paying them and following their endless regulations. The rest is not lies, but opinion which differs from yours. There's a world of difference there. Edited June 21, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Which EU law would you say has negatively impacted you the most? What possible difference could that make? I am saying that it should be a matter of principle that we have a government that the people of this country can hold 100% to account for the laws and policies imposed on us. We can argue to the cows come home whether a specific EU laws or policies is good or bad but, either way, it never changes the fact that the British public cannot solely hold to account those in the EU that are responsible for them. Do you have a view on this matter of principle? What's your case for surrendering democratic control and sovereignty that previous generations fought and struggled so hard for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 16 years of legal practice doesn't make you an authority on predicting the future.At the risk of pointing out the obvious, makes me more of an authority about the Vote Leave leaflet issue than you so far As for the future, time will tell who between us got most it right. The forum is replete with our posts, mine consistently under my nick and yours under your numerous aliases, so it'll be easy enough to cross-check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 What possible difference could that make? I am saying that it should be a matter of principle that we have a government that the people of this country can hold 100% to account for the laws and policies imposed on us. We can argue to the cows come home whether a specific EU laws or policies is good or bad but, either way, it never changes the fact that the British public cannot solely hold to account those in the EU that are responsible for them. Do you have a view on this matter of principle? What's your case for surrendering democratic control and sovereignty that previous generations fought and struggled so hard for? I'd argue that we haven't surrendered sovereignty. The EU cannot force us to enact any laws that our elected officials felt wasn't in our best interests, our elected officials are free to leave the EU if they feel it was in the countries interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobileB Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 What possible difference could that make? I am saying that it should be a matter of principle that we have a government that the people of this country can hold 100% to account for the laws and policies imposed on us. We can argue to the cows come home whether a specific EU laws or policies is good or bad but, either way, it never changes the fact that the British public cannot solely hold to account those in the EU that are responsible for them. Do you have a view on this matter of principle? What's your case for surrendering democratic control and sovereignty that previous generations fought and struggled so hard for? So you voting out on something on principle that happened 70 years ago (and it could be argued it wasn't our freedom that was fought for rather that of the Europe we are now opted into) and not on the reality of the last 40 years. Is that what you are saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomjames Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Did see Mickey Grove this morning on breakfast tv. Maybe just my impression but he did look a little broken and resigned to defeat I thought. He knows he can stop fibbing in 2 days time and we can all get on with our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'd argue that we haven't surrendered sovereignty. Sure we have. We just retain the power to get it back. Which is what this referendum is about. The EU cannot force us to enact any laws that our elected officials felt wasn't in our best interests, our elected officials are free to leave the EU if they feel it was in the countries interest. Which it is and which they should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hauxwell Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I have been told that yesterday Switzerland has withdrawn their application to join the EU. If this is the case I wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I have been told that yesterday Switzerland has withdrawn their application to join the EU. If this is the case I wonder why? They've been drifting away from the idea for a number of years. They finally withdrew their application in March. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland–European_Union_relations#Proposals_for_EU_membership They had a referendum 2 years ago on whether to withdraw from (technically apply a cap to) their free movement arrangements with the EU which passed. The whole thing is falling apart, and rapidly losing the consent of the European people. If we stay in we're asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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