SnailyBoy Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 It isn't my position... it is what is at stake. Vote stay to accept the loss of sovereignty to the EU or vote leave to regain it. Predicting the outcome following either choice may be complicated and confusing but the basic principle at stake is not. What level of sovereignty do you feel is lost to the EU, in simple percentage terms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Tell me Unbeliever, how is the UK going to stay in the single market (which isn't a con) and cut immigration? It's not going to stay into the single market. But "access" to the single market is quite a different matter. The EU buys and sells things with countries all over the world without then being members of the single market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarus Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 The Brits overseas are spread over several countries in Europe. Similarly, the Europeans in the UK come from several European countries. I don't see your point, unless it is that all European are being grouped together as "foreign". I know EU (and non-EU for that matter) immigrants in both Whirlow and Dore. (And Bents Green and Fulwood). I don't know any in Totley, but as it happens, I don't know anyone at all in Totley. Britain small Europe large Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Funny, this Yorkshire Post article clearly states that Yorkshire Universities are getting a huge amount of money from the EU. For someone who keeps rolling out he is a scientist, you have very little idea of what EU funding does for British universities, quite odd that. For the 90th time that's our money. It's not EU money. It's our money. We sent it there, then they wrote "EU money" on half of it, sent that back and kept the rest. It's OUR MONEY. There's no such thing as EU money!. Maybe an independent UK government won't send the universities as much money. Maybe they'll send more. Who knows. That's their right. After all they were elected and therefore have a mandate to decide how to spend taxpayers' money. Edited June 21, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 We don't provide the entire EU budget you know. If we leave and stop contributing, do you think the government is going to divert some of the "saving" into science? I put saving in quotes because after the economy crashes the government will be worse off, there won't be any saving to divert, we will simply be worse off in net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) It's not going to stay into the single market. But "access" to the single market is quite a different matter.Absolutely. In particular, the degree of freedom of that "access". I daresay Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein have fairly unfettered access to the Single Market...relative to the rest of the world The EU buys and sells things with countries all over the world without then being members of the single market.So does the UK to the US and to many other non-EU/non-EEA countries without any formal trade agreement. That's been the case for decades and longer. The crux of the matter is less the access itself, than the quality/scope/unfettered character of that access. Unsurprisingly, there can be quite a price differential in it. Enough to convince non-EU investors à la Nissan, Toyota <etc.> to do business and set up shop in the UK as a passporting base into the EU, in years gone by and since still...for now Edited June 21, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 It's not going to stay into the single market. But "access" to the single market is quite a different matter. The EU buys and sells things with countries all over the world without then being members of the single market. And how does that work out for Norway? It has to implement a large portion of EU law despite not being a member, simply to be allowed to trade. But because it's not a member it doesn't have a say in what laws are drafted. It has the worst of both worlds. ---------- Post added 21-06-2016 at 14:46 ---------- It isn't my position... it is what is at stake. Vote stay to accept the loss of sovereignty to the EU or vote leave to regain it. Predicting the outcome following either choice may be complicated and confusing but the basic principle at stake is not. I'd suggest that whatever we lose in control over the UK, we gain more in having a say about how all of Europe is run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 And how does that work out for Norway? It has to implement a large portion of EU law despite not being a member, simply to be allowed to trade. But because it's not a member it doesn't have a say in what laws are drafted. It has the worst of both worlds. This again. Norway joined EFTA. They do 80% of their trade with the EU. We're under no obligation to do so. ---------- Post added 21-06-2016 at 14:48 ---------- Absolutely. In particular, the degree of freedom of that "access". I daresay Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein have fairly unfettered access to the Single Market...relative to the rest of the world So does the UK to the US and to many other non-EU/non-EEA countries without any formal trade agreement. That's been the case for decades and longer. The crux of the matter is less the access itself, than the quality/scope/unfettered character of that access. There's a price differential in it, you know Ah good. I'm going to call you "the honest remainer". Quite so. "Access" to the single market is easier if you're a member. It still exists if you're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 We don't provide the entire EU budget you know. If we leave and stop contributing, do you think the government is going to divert some of the "saving" into science? I put saving in quotes because after the economy crashes the government will be worse off, there won't be any saving to divert, we will simply be worse off in net. This bothers me too. Is the government (or any other) going to divert any of the savings into things we would like to see, or will it all be wasted/spent on pet projects,expenses etc/disappear? How can we, the ordinary people, know how it's spent. Whoever is in charge will make sure we only hear what they want us to hear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 We don't provide the entire EU budget you know. If we leave and stop contributing, do you think the government is going to divert some of the "saving" into science? I put saving in quotes because after the economy crashes the government will be worse off, there won't be any saving to divert, we will simply be worse off in net. No idea. That will be for the duly elected UK government to decide. As it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts