EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[I1L2T3]

IMF, CBI, Treasury.

 

And where are the reports you are referencing. If you've already provided links just point me to the relevant posts and I'll check them out.

[Eater Sundae]

The perfect way to destroy competition... a one-size-fits all dictatorship!

 

It make sense for a trading bloc to remove trade barriers and standardise trade related regulations but it makes no sense to try and impose a one-size-fits all policy for things like immigration. The risks, issues and priorities of each member state are different and we need different solutions. The EU centralising these decisions is not wanted, not helpful and not necessary.

 

There's still plenty of competition. In fact the EU ensures it by requiring projects to be accessible EU wide. So British companies can, as of right, quote for schemes in the rest of Europe. Outside the EU, those British companies would not have that right. It might not be as obvious and emotive as discussions regarding people arriving here, but these opportunities in the rest of Europe are real.

[Penistone999]

I just cannot believe what I'm hearing now on LBC Farage & Heseltine, Heseltine on answering a caller about housing, says people who aren't housed are isolated cases, his arrogance beggars belief, what planet is that man on...............

 

The housing shortage will only get worse , much worse unless we leave the EU

[Anna B]

Just changing the subject and trying to keep it brief - if people still say they are undecided, why do they feel under pressure to make a choice at the last minute that might influence the majority of us for the next 40 years?

 

No-one will respect you any less if you stay true to your principles and say "I just don't know so I'm not voting".

 

If you don't know by now, just don't vote , it's that simple!

 

Mmm...I've thought this too at times; I am a habitual fence sitter, and usually it doesn't make a blind bit of difference what I think (or how I vote.)

 

But this is different.

 

For the first time, we have a truly democratic vote which, for good or ill, may make a difference.

Politicians face these dilemmas all the time and have to chose one way or another. I am the first to criticise politicians for getting it wrong, or not truly representing the people who elected them, so now I have to put my money where my mouth is, bite the bullet, and vote for what I think is right

[Zamo]

It's like you want to live in a far right theme park.

 

I want to live in whatever political theme park the British electorate choose... not the European electorate.

 

Be careful thinking that the EU will provide eternal protection from the far right. Many European countries are lurching towards the far right and if the current migration crisis continues then things are going to get worse. If the EU finds itself overrun by the far right some time in the future then will you be a Little Englander, isolationist for wanting no part of it or just someone wanting our country making it's own decisions?

 

Which part of "the UK signed up to the ECHR 22 years before signing up to the EEC" and "the ECHR is entirely unconnected to the EU and the ECtHR jurisdictionally independent of the EU" don't you get?

 

What bit about laws and circumstances changing don't you get? Things have moved on and if we want to make changes to deliver different outcomes that are right for our country then we need to opt out of the ECHR and it's court. We can't do that and stay in the EU because it is a condition of membership and the connection you appear to be blind to.

 

By your logic, the UK should exit all the international treaties and agreements of which it is a signatory and which create obligations upon its 'sovereignty'. UN, NATO, WTO and all. Can't see a problem there. Nope. Not-a-one.

 

Not at all. We should exit the treaties that the people of this country believe results in unnecessary encroachment on our sovereignty and limits our ability to hold those that govern us to democratic accountability. As things stand that is our treaty with the EU only.

 

Don't you think we've lost enough civil liberties down to terrorism and other real and fake boogeymen already?

 

Are you up for more, once the ECHR safety valve is removed?

 

I think that if we stay in the EU then the migrants currently flooding through the EU southern borders will eventually make their way here. And with more people from the dysfunctional Muslim world will come more extremism and more threat... and more loses of our civil liberties to try and contain it.

 

I think we need to tighten our borders and we need to be able to do so without getting EU permission. I think we need to take a harder line towards non-UK citizens identified as a threat and to deport them regardless of what threat their country of origin may pose. If the British public don't want what I want then they can vote for a party that won't give them that. I'll respect that but I won't respect the judgement of the EU because it isn't their decision to make.

 

Good old Zamo, still persisting with the migration theory.

 

What's the migration theory when it's at home? Is the free movement of people something made up by the Leave campaign to smear the EU? And presuming you are not stupid enough to deny it's existence... is it with in the UK's gift to change the policy?

[L00b]

Can we not enlarge Hull as a worldclass port and ompose our own sensible regulations? Fewer of them would be a start.

Speaking of regulations, I go abroad to Europe quite often and am constantly seeing EU rules, which we obey to the letter, being openly flouted by other European countries. It's not a level playing field at all.

It is a level playing field: EU law is the same for all within the EU, the text of a Directive is what it is, it's not country-specific.

 

Where it can differ, is in how each national Parliament then implements EU law as national law, e.g. for us into Acts of Parliament (which is why the ECJ is required to exist).

 

t's not the EU's fault the HoC frequently just rubber stamps Directives with little thought or consultations on its domestic implications for certain national interests, and consequently little UK-self-serving 'fudge' like other countries sometime do.

 

Then again, look at the UK's Habitual Residence Test: it's not as if the UK's HoC can't do these fudges when there is a political will

 

The bit in bold is, accordingly, a purely domestic issue which you should, and can, take up with your MP. Nowt to do with Brussels I'm afraid

[Quik]

It is a level playing field: EU law is the same for all within the EU, the text of a Directive is what it is, it's not country-specific.

 

Where it can differ, is in how each national Parliament then implements EU law as national law, e.g. for us into Acts of Parliament (which is why the ECJ is required to exist).

 

t's not the EU's fault the HoC frequently just rubber stamps Directives with little thought or consultations on its domestic implications for certain national interests, and consequently little UK-self-serving 'fudge' like other countries sometime do.

 

Then again, look at the UK's Habitual Residence Test: it's not as if the UK's HoC can't do these fudges when there is a political will

 

The bit in bold is, accordingly, a purely domestic issue which you should, and can, take up with your MP. Nowt to do with Brussels I'm afraid

 

There is a key issue with this argument. We implement the laws as imposed by Brussels. Other counties simply ignore them or legislate and then don't enforce.

 

Remain blame us for following the rules. I would counter than when you are in a club where most of the other members ignore the rules the solution is not to become a cheat like them but to leave the club as unsuitable.

[saunaman]

Anna, totally respect your decision, you've made the effort to look into things.

 

What worries me are those "undecided" who still don't know which way to vote, but will do so anyway...if by now people don't know how to vote, then just abstain from voting.

 

There's nothing wrong with being honest!

[L00b]

What bit about laws and circumstances changing don't you get?

I understand laws and jurisprudence just fine, thanks. The ECHR hasn't changed one bit since 1950. Neither have circumstances under which it is invoked. Protocols to the ECHR have evolved, but the UK is not a signatory of many of them, which therefore do not apply here.

Things have moved on and if we want to make changes to deliver different outcomes that are right for our country then we need to opt out of the ECHR and it's court. We can't do that and stay in the EU because it is a condition of membership and the connection you appear to be blind to.

I'm not blind to the connection, it is simply irrelevant to what you are after: you are effectively wishing the jurisdiction and jurisprudence of the ECtHR away, regardless of whether the UK is in or out of the EU. It's never going to happen, regardless of whether the UK is in or out of the EU.

 

But keep charging at the windmills, it's good exercise

Not at all. We should exit the treaties that the people of this country believe results in unnecessary encroachment on our sovereignty and limits our ability to hold those that govern us to democratic accountability. As things stand that is our treaty with the EU only.

NATO Article 5 imposes upon the UK to take up arms in the defense of any fellow NATO member aggressed by a third party country.

 

The WTO dispute settlement system’s rulings are binding on the countries involved in a dispute.

 

If these are not an encroachment on British sovereignty, I don't know what is.

 

So, I take it that you want the UK out of NATO and the WTO...right? That's going to help British international relations post-Brexit to no end

I think we need to tighten our borders and we need to be able to do so without getting EU permission.

Nothing to stop the UK doing that now, you know. It's not in Schengen, it's in full control of its borders.

 

As an aside, that'll go down really well between Ireland, NI and the mainland UK

I think we need to take a harder line towards non-UK citizens identified as a threat and to deport them regardless of what threat their country of origin may pose.

France didn't seem to have any trouble chucking out Russians identified as a threat last week. It must have taken all of 48 hours, from arrest to "charterization back to Moscow". And greatly displeased Putin. How I laughed Edited June 21, 2016 by L00b

[Ridgewalk]

When the referendum campaign started I was someone who could have voted either way. Both sides produced "experts" on economic and financial matters and produced statistics and figures that I am in no position to determine the accuracy of.

 

However this whole process has always been about internal Tory party politics and Daves desperation to win the General Election last year which he did with a majority which the Polls suggested he would!n't get,his tactic was to win over former Tory voting southern UKIPers.

 

The things that have swung me towards the Remain campaign have been twofold, 1/ Pffelel's blatant opportunism. 3/ The gutter tactics of the Leave campaign in playing the immigration/ race card which appeared base, crude and a vulgar attempt to play on fears of the foreigner.

 

Boris just comes across as a bully and Nigel " would you want to live next to a Rumanian" as a disgusting racist

 

I still believe there was a good case to be made against staying in the EU it's just that they haven't made it.

 

I don't believe the NHS would be safe with a right wing Tory govt with Pfeffel as Prime Minister and Farage in the House of Lords